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I'm Thinking Funs Over

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by mickeykelley, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Sep 11, 2017
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
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    Oct 10, 2015
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    I've been noticing at certain times the engine (factory 134 probably never been touched) rattles/clatters kind of like the sound you hear diesel motors make at times. But it's just at a certain rpm range (1900 to 2200). Otherwise seems to run fine. Then today when almost home, I felt/heard strang noises at 45 mph and lost power. I immediately put the clutch in and moved over to the shoulder and coasted while listening. Seem ok so let out clutch and tried to accelerate but didn't feel right and noticed the temp going up over normal. Turned the key off and coasted to my gate entrance off the highway. Then I started the engine and sounded fine so I let it idle while I got the mail. No leaks under it and temp was normal. So as I drove up my road it was ok at slow speeds but too much rpm and didn't sound or feel right. Got Willie parked but I've got a bad feeling. Will have to sit til next month til I'll have time to check it out. Really sad face right now......
     
  2. Sep 12, 2017
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Sponsor Sponsor

    I live South of...
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    If you were closer I would loan you my spare motor until you get yours fixed. The worst about fixing is the cost, I think it is fun to rebuild a 134, they are so basic, and when you are done you are all set for a long time. I got lucky, a guy five miles from me had two surplus military short blocks, I wish I had bought them both.
     
  3. Sep 12, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Let us know what you find- I've got the same thing- sounds like a rattle at about 2000 +/- a few hundred rpm but only under load. Does not seem to vary in frequency- just starts, gets louder then fades off as the engine passes through the rpm range. Thought it was something loose for quite a while till I managed to narrow it down to the block. Doesn't appear to be rod knock/piston slap/valve train, per the stethoscope mine seems to be coming from the oil pump of all places.

    Mind you dropping the pan & checking the bearings is definitely on the to-do list.

    H.
     
  4. Sep 12, 2017
    Hellion

    Hellion Rust covered & junky

    Eastern TN
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    Dec 25, 2016
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    The fun (of driving) isn't over, it's just postponed until you can find out the issue. Rick Whitson then said it was fun to rebuild the F-head and I believe him.

    What gets me is the temp going over normal. Sounds like it almost overheated by what you're saying...[​IMG]
     
  5. Sep 12, 2017
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
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    Since I got Willie I've been planning to have it rebuilt for dependability, piece of mind knowing the true history, etc. The problem is that I was just enjoying him so much and had achieved a comfort level of jumping in and going on errands and knowing I'd get home that I was putting it off. We are in the process of getting house/property all finished and ready to put on the market in the spring so we can 'retire' to Durango that it's not the best of time. But I guess there really isn't a 'good' time. But I guess the sooner I get the engine out, the sooner it gets done.
     
    Moporhead likes this.
  6. Sep 12, 2017
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
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    When I get back in a couple weeks, I'll do the customary checks of water, oil, looseness of anything underneath, start it up and listen, etc. But I'd hate to ruin a block, crank etc., best to stop while ahead. I did seem to notice that it felt like something was creating drag when I was at stop lights where I'd normally roll a little if not on the brakes. I thought it might be the original 9" brakes not releasing or the parking brake dragging. Maybe there was something loose in there. Will just have to check but most likely will just bite the bullet. I tested the compression early on and it was in the low 80's and one a little lower so I'm thinking the rebuild is enevitible.
     
  7. Sep 12, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL Member Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Stethoscope will tell you a lot, if the bearings are shot. As will oil pressure.

    But bearings wouldn't seem to account for a loss of power.
     
  8. Sep 19, 2017
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Active Member

    Vestal NY
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    May 30, 2006
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    could be pre detonation. maybe your distributor is messed up causing eratic advance/retard. That would explain the noise and loss of power
     
    Posimoto likes this.
  9. Sep 19, 2017
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
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    It's got the Pertronix on it. Right now camping on our future home just outside Durango. It will have to wait til I return to start looking at it.
     
  10. Sep 20, 2017
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    Check for oil in the water

    Check the make sure the dist is fastened down tight. (I hope it's this)

    Check the valve lash.

    Have a spare motor cuz spares are good lol

    Good luck!
     
  11. Oct 6, 2017
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
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    Finally back in town and semi caught up. No oil in water, no water in oil. Was maybe 3/4 quart low on oil. Started it up and there is a tapping sound that seems to be coming from head area. Louder than what I recall the old rocker sound. Doesn't really sound like a rod knock from lower on the block. After adding the oil, it got a little quieter, but still there. I didn't let it run more than maybe a minute at idle to avoid any possible additional damage. I guess I could pull the valve cover to see if I see anything. Not sure I want to pull the head unless I just rebuild the whole motor which was eventually in the game plan since I don't know the true mileage or condition. An early compression test showed in the mid 80's with one a little lower, as I recall.
     
  12. Oct 6, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    If you don't find anything obvious in the intake valve train you might consider adding 5 ounces of Sea Foam in the crankcase, maybe a tappet is sticking? Add it while it is idling is best, loosen the oil fill/dipstick and pour it in.
     
  13. Oct 6, 2017
    mayday

    mayday Sponsor Sponsor

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    Have you checked or adjusted your valves? When I got my trusty rusty cj5 my compression was worse, I adjusted valves and got it up. Later had to do a valve job later. A leak down test will tell you a lot
     
  14. Oct 6, 2017
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    The original speedo has 16K on it but no telling how long it had been down so no way to tell real miles. As I remember from my days of youth, the late 60's era engine were not good for much past 75,000 to 100,000 miles. Not sure on the 50's era or these in particular.
     
  15. Oct 6, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL Member Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    60K on most small engines was a lifetime, as I recall.
     
  16. Oct 6, 2017
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    Thinking gonna just pull it get a know quantity.
     
  17. Oct 6, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    Well, now is as good as any time right?
     
  18. Mar 15, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
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    FINALLY, got the motor back today. Hurrah! The guy really apologize for how long it took (dropped it off mid December and now mid March). But I had planned to eventually get it done since it was an unknown quantity to me. The compression numbers were in the lower 80's as I recall with one slightly lower than the rest. Will be interesting to see when I get it stabbed and all hooked up. May even check them on the floor first. As it turns out, not sure what the original issue was as he didn't see any issues as he went thru it. He did pistons 20 over which he says you should always do just to make sure everything smooth and lined up (and I get all that extra hp), crank ok so just polished and replaced the cam, again he says he always does. I forgot to ask about lifters but I can't imagine him not when replacing the cam. I'll call just to verify tomorrow. Also said all valves good and it came with hard seats so didn't have to do anything other than standard valve job. I've already got the rebuilt starter back, as well as the generator converted to Gener-nator. Waiting on a few parts to get back from powder-coater then I'll start replacing the various oil, vacuum and fuel lines I've had in waiting. The fuel pump was already new and carb had already been totally restored. I already put a Pertronix in the distributor but had not really cleaned and painted it. I'll look inside but I'm leaning towards sending it off to the WillysDistributor.com guy to restore it. As much as I've spent might as well. The clutch was only about half way thru so I'll look into just replacing it all now while it's out.

    So here's the damage so far (from memory): engine $1700, starter $350, Gener-Nator $1,000 (with shipping), Pertronix $100, carb restore $216, fuel pump with glass bowl and dual action $50 replacement exhaust manifold $75 (was not necessary but I hated looking at the pitting), water pump $65, radiator $80, miscellaneous hoses, belt, plus, wires, cap, rotor, coil, choke/throttle cables, oil/gas/vacuum lines, motor mounts, battery, etc, I'm guessing another $500 and throw in another couple hundred for what I had powder coated. So I'm approaching $4500, plus tires $800, wiring harness $240, soft top $1000, NOS speedo $200, seat belts $100, roll bar $200, front hubs $50 and who know what else I've forgotten.

    Still left: create back seat and upholstery all 3, pull body and do minor body work and paint, have tranny and TC gone thru, disc brakes up front (have the Geo version back plates already) and 11" rear, rebuilt Ross box and whatever steering components, plus whatever else comes up.

    Damn this adds up in a hurry.......someone start a go fund me account.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
    73 cj5 likes this.
  19. Mar 15, 2018
    baldjosh

    baldjosh Sponsor Sponsor

    pacific north west
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    glad to hear the engine is back...looking forward to the report after install...(y)
     
  20. Mar 15, 2018
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Sponsor Sponsor

    I live South of...
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    I never think about how much I spent on my toys, I just fix them the way I want them and play with them. I am lucky, I have a lot of like minded friends, and we all work well together. Good Luck Mickey
     

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