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How do I disconnect PTO u joint(s)?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Greenshirt82, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. Aug 22, 2015
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
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    Aug 28, 2012
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    I have a Ramsey MX-200 winch on the front and need to temporarily remove it so the spring hangars can be repaired. For info, the hangers are ok, but the frame where they attach is cracked and unsafe; found it when I went to install my new springs.

    My welder needs to reinforce it with a plate on the c channel but cannot get to it with the winch in place.

    I easily got the four bolts that hold the winch to the frame, and can lift the winch about half an inch. But for the life of me I can't find a way to disconnect the ujoint at the front. It appears to be simple pins but a solid thwack with a punch and hammer isn't budging it. It appears the winch side just slides off the shaft, which has a key. But the transfer case side won't budge (move aft) so that's not an option.

    Worse case I destroy the ujoint. Best case I'm able to reinstall everything easily without buying replacement parts. While off I'll rebuild it to fix that nagging leak...

    Anyone have any ideas? How have you removed them in the past?

    Regards,
    Tim
     
  2. Aug 22, 2015
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    As very few of these things are actually the original installs probably everyone's installation will be a bit different- on mine I went with a two piece shaft & I made them to short enough to be able to slide things together/apart when all the pieces are in place- my u-joints use set screws so things are easy to adjust. You may have to resort to removing the bumper & slide it out forwards, or, unbolt the PTO.

    H.
     
  3. Aug 22, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Look for a socket-head set screw over the key. Or alternatively there may be a roll pin somewhere that can be driven through and out.

    Worst case, pull the pto driveline out with the winch, then work on it.
     
  4. Aug 22, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    Things are probably rusted together as well. I bought a PTO, drive shaft and winch from a member in Evergreen. It took about ten minutes to get the Ujoint seperated from the shaft so the parts were short enough to fit in my car. A bit of heat probably would have helped.
     
  5. Aug 22, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    FWIW the pin might be a shear pin. Have you tried driving it from both sides? Sooner or later it has to come out.
     
  6. Aug 23, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    At least in my case, it was set screws and a keyed shafts. I have two Jeeps running so I need three winches, right?
     
  7. Aug 24, 2015
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
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    Okay, my apologies for not adding photos. I believe mine is more like uncamonkey's PTO in that it has set screws and keyed shafts.
    Rear u-joint (note set screws removed):
    [​IMG]

    In theory, I should be able to get the key out of the shaft to left (which is forward) and push shaft aft about 3/4 of an inch to enable removal of winch. The retaining rings for the u-joint are inside the u's and I can't get anything in there to pop them off.

    Forward u-joint (winch is to left):
    [​IMG]

    Apologies for poor flash, but good flash photos seem to be out of focus, no matter how many times I take the picture :(

    Note allen set screw on top of forward (left) joint. It's rounded out so no joy using an allen wrench to remove it. On aft (right) end is another key but no set screw I can find.

    While shaft of the forward u-joint looks like a simple shear pin, it does have a lube point (not visible).

    I don't want to remove the front bumper as it's riveted on and I'd have to grind those rivets off; I did that on the rear cross member and it was an all day PITA. The winch is unbolted, and can be lifted until the drive shaft binds, so if I can get the shaft disconnected I'd be home free.

    Soaking in WD-40...as best I can.

    Regards,
    Tim
     
  8. Aug 24, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    From what I see without a slip joint everything has to move or nothing will. Personally at this point I'd pull the PTO as Pete mentioned and then work on it. Rather than just getting the winch out of the way you really should fix the whole driveline issue before it gets even worse. As soon as you get the yoke off of the PTO you could put the PTO back on. You could also try heating the yoke (but not the shaft) with a torch, wrapping a wet rag around the shaft by the seal area to help dissipate heat. While the yoke is still warm rotate it and tap on it with a ball peen hammer which will a lot of times be enough to break the rust bond.
     
  9. Aug 24, 2015
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    For the cost of some shafting & new u-joints I'd be inclined to take a sawzall to it.

    H.
     
  10. Aug 24, 2015
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
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    I'll try Glenn's suggestion first...this would be a last resort.

    Regards,
    Tim
     
  11. Aug 24, 2015
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    Might try one of those reverse direction easy-outs or drill bits on that rounded out allen set screw socket?
     
  12. Aug 24, 2015
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
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    My approach is going to focus on the front u-joint. The shaft is supported at mid-point so if I can get the forward joint free I should be able to lift the winch out.

    Updates as I progress (or not).

    Regards,
    Tim
     
  13. Aug 24, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Might save enough time to be the cheapest option.
     
  14. Aug 24, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    My last resort would be to cut the shaft, I'm sort of stubborn that way. More PB Blaster, perhaps the gentle use of heat, a pair of hammers to break up the rust, use a big one like an anvil and do some general whacking with the other hammer. Where I live, there are lots of tractor supply places and truck supply joints so I can get parts. There is also a place up North that still has the new parts for the old Konig winches, They are still basicly the same winches that were made 50+ years ago.
    Good luck.
     
  15. Aug 24, 2015
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
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    I have a bit of time now; I like repairing it first, replacing parts second. I'll give it a weekend and if no joy I'll likely start cutting.

    There are a couple of tractor supply shops around here as well, plenty of farming going on. If I cannot fiddle with it and make some reasonable progress quickly I'll check there for parts and then start looking at my options.

    Regards,
    Tim
     
  16. Aug 24, 2015
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
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    After drilling out the set screws on the front ujoint and soaking / hammering it won't budge. I decided to try driving the shaft aft as it only needs to move half an inch. No joy but the aft ujoint is obviously loose now. So I tried a lift and pull forward of the winch. Almost! That shaft limits how much I can lift and I'm only an inch shy of lifting it out. Bummer.

    So tomorrow night I'll grind off six rivets on the front bumper and pull it all off.

    Regards,
    Tim
     
  17. Aug 24, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I've never messed with a PTO but wouldn't it be easier to loosen it and remove the yoke from it since you say it's loose? That seems like it would beat grinding those rivets off.
     
  18. Aug 24, 2015
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
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    The front ujoint is not loose at all. Both yokes are hard onto the shafts and the actual joint, while flexible as it should be, doesn't want to come apart. The aft ujoint, front yoke came loose quite easily, but the shaft is still hard connected to the winch.

    Regards,
    Tim
     
  19. Aug 24, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    I suppose I'm lucky, I've never had to play with PTO drive shafts other than that time I bought that one, Drive shafts are way too long for a CJ so it must hsve come off of a pickup or wagon.
     
  20. Aug 24, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I guess I just realized why you have to remove the front bumper anyway. Makes sense and after that if need be you will be able to remove the bumper by unbolting it.
     
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