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Help with T-18?

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Chuck, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. Sep 30, 2004
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Chuck, some FSJ T18s have long bellhousings, and some (later ones) have a spacer between the transmission and the bellhousing. You can call it an adapter or a spacer, but it's not a plate adapter like used with the CJ.

    If Dave_g's T18 is original Jeep, it should have a metal tag under one of the cover bolts, about 2" long and 3/4" wide, with a B-W P/N, a Jeep P/N (typically 7 digits, like 545 XXXX), and "T18A". Unfortunately, these tags are often lost, so if there's no tag, it's not conclusive.
     
  2. Oct 1, 2004
    Chuck

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    Tim, thanks for the continued insight on this matter. I’m impressed with the amount of knowledge that this forum holds, you guys are fantastic!
     
  3. Oct 1, 2004
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    This is very interesting. I looked at my Boss's bone stock '79 with factory T-18 to verify what I said before and it does have the adapter on the front. Not disputing what others are saying but I have one to look at right here. Wonder if Jeep ran out of some parts and made what they had laying around work? Have seen it tons of times with other manufacturers. Another one of those mysteries I guess. The comment about the PTO port is correct. Jeep had them on the driver's side and Ford had them on the passenger side. Easy way to tell a T-19 is the PTO port is on both sides. Nickmil.
     
  4. Oct 1, 2004
    Chuck

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    Nick, thanks for the PTO hint that will identify between the Jeep/Ford T-18 and the T-19. Should be very helpful.
     
  5. Oct 1, 2004
    Chuck

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    According to Nick if you have a Jeep T-18 you will have the PTO on the driver’s side. If it’s a Ford it will be on the passenger side, if you have a PTO on both sides it’s a T-19.

    Concerning the adapter: Nick, when you were looking at your Bosses stock T-18, was it a short flange pressed into the T18 bellhousing that would mate with a hole on the transmission?
     
  6. Oct 4, 2004
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    OK, I can shed some light on the adapter no adapter issue. I've done some digging in the last two days and found some verifiable answers. The '77-'79 Jeep T-18 does NOT use an adapter on the front. Turns out the boss's supposedly bone stock Jeep isn't. He has a T-18 out of a '74 CJ-5 which does use the adapter on the front with a longer input shaft. Just so happened I stumbled on a one owner '78 this weekend with the factory T-18. It does not use the adapter as other's here mentioned. I was wrong on this point. Believe me, it hurts to admit it:). Anyway, the stock '77-'79 T-18 uses a special bellhousing with the Jeep T-18 bolt pattern. I measured the depth and it is the exact same depth as a T-150 bellhousing which means the stock '77-'79 T-18 overall length is the same as using the T-150 bellhousing and a Ford T-18. That will make the shortest combo possible using this tranny. The bellhousing is definitely unique to that set up though, so if you get the tranny from a '77-'79 CJ, make sure you get the bellhousing with it or you may have troubles mating it up. Regardless which T-18 you use, there will always be an adapter on the back. Normal thickness is 1" when mated to a large hole or small hole 18 or 20 transfer case. Hope this helps some of the confusion here and some that I created. I apologize for my mistake. Nickmil.
     
  7. Oct 4, 2004
    Chuck

    Chuck Sponsor

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    Speaking for myself, no apologies needed and I applaud your effort in seeking the answers. I have learned much from yourself, Tim and the rest of the guys just from this one thread.
    Tomorrow I plan to leave work a little early so that I can pull that T-18 I found.
     
  8. Oct 6, 2004
    Chuck

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    OK, yesterday didn’t go as planned. What I thought was a T-18A (81 Ford 250 2WD) was a NP435. I wasn’t able to identify the numbers and with the PTO on the driver side and reverse being down and out I assumed it was a T-18A. It wasn’t until I removed the floorpan access cover did I notice the 8 bolts in the shift control housing (T-18 6 bolts). At that point I decided to finish removing the trans and let the attendant hold it for me until I make a decision on the purchase.

    What is your opinion on the NP435 (2 WD)? I know that it is a perfect match for my T-150 bellhousing, I also know that it will need a 3.5” adapter for the TC. The NP435 has a lower 1st gear then the T-18 (6.68-1). Is it to long for my CJ5? If it’s to long for my 5 can I use it in my 7?

    I found a 74 Ford 150 4WD T-18 at the same yard. Novak and Parts Mike have said “all Ford T-18 come with the low 6.32-1 first gear”. Can this be true with the 1974? What if they have reverse out and up? Sometimes there can be acceptations to “all”.

    I’m not interested in it, but I also found a T-98. The price still stands at $60. for the T-18 or NP435.
    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  9. Oct 6, 2004
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    Novak and Parts Mike are right. The Fords all use the 6.32-1 first gear. Reverse location had no bearing on the gear ratio. Just a case and top change to change which way reverse is. The 435 is a good tranny but the extra length is not worth it in a short wheel base in my opinion. Any where you can lengthen that rear drive shaft to alleviate already tight angles is a good thing. 435's are also more sensitive to internal clearance issues when rebuilding than the T-18, so it is easier for the average person to rebuild a T-18 successfully. The 435 is definitely doable for the average person, the T-18 is easier is all. Nickmil
     
  10. Oct 6, 2004
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Out and up is slightly harder to shift becasue you can clip reverse on a 2-3 shift. Not a problem - you get used to the gate width after you grind it a couple of times.
     
  11. Oct 6, 2004
    iamgeer

    iamgeer Member

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    All this talk about t18s has provoked me to start the install of mine. Its out of a 77 cj7, and for the record, it has an adapter on the bellhousing and a u-shaped shift pattern for the tcase. I have two questions: (1) Which clutch, throwout, and pilot bearing do I use? (2) I am concerned about the shift pattern on the tcase. Its about 4 inches closer to the bellhousing than my stock t15/s20 setup. It sits on a pipe mount. I can easily modify the mount, but I dont want to have to cut any part of the hump to get this to work. I measured the location of the shift towers for both and they are compatible. Anybody have experience in what, if any, modification need to be done to the hump to get the swap to work?

    Karl
     
  12. Oct 6, 2004
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    My truck has the U-shaped shifter, as do all D20 FSJs. I believe the Commando had a U-shaped shifter too. I've never seen a CJ with anything but a linear shift.

    The stock T18s that came with the 258s had a different tunnel cover that had a box on top to accomodate the T18 tower. I thought that the TC shifter was unchanged. This would require that the length of the complete shifter be longer by whatever the length distance is between the T14 and the T18. Without looking at it, I'd guess that I'd try to lengthen the original shifter and use the existing transfer case.
     
  13. Oct 7, 2004
    Chuck

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    I found a (81 Ford 350/2WD) T-18. It was missing the shift assembly housing, so I checked in the case to see if there’s water or rust and found none. I thought if I’m just going to use the input shaft, main gears and then look for a FSJ/Scout T-18 for the output shaft and adapter I should grab this one, and for $20. I’m half way there.
     
  14. Oct 7, 2004
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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  15. Oct 8, 2004
    Chuck

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    Having left work at noon I had a chance to stop by my house change and run over to grab the 74 Ford T-18 I talked about in an earlier post. As I was walking to the 74 I noticed another Ford on its side so I went over to check it out. I was happy to see that it was another T-18. Being that it was an 87 2WD with 103, miles I decided to pull it opposed to the 74. I have heard a lot of talk about the T-18 being bulletproof and was wondering if most people rebuild or just install it as is? This trans looks very good with no leaks and short miles, but I think the wise thing to do is to rebuild it. What would you do?
     
  16. Oct 8, 2004
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    I'd rebuild it while you have it out. Remember, used in trucks to haul loads and pull stuff= accelerated wear on bearings and synchro's. Check the 1st gear ring for excessively chipped teeth also. This ring is very expensive to buy new. It's the big straight cut toothed gear at the back of the transmission. These tranny's weigh in at 157 lbs. with adapter and top. It sucks to wrestle one in just to take it back out because of worn parts or an oil leak. A complete rebuild kit with synchro's, bearings, gaskets, seals, and small parts kit costs around $125 so I'd budget that in. You are gonna have it apart anyway to put in the Jeep/Scout output shaft anyway so now is the time to do it. My 2 cents worth. Nickmil.
     
  17. Oct 12, 2004
    Chuck

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    The trans above is the one I plan to use when I find another FSJ/Scout T-18. The second T-18 I found (87 Ford 150/2WD) will now be my spear, but you’re correct it’s wise and best to factor in the rebuild.

    This morning on my way to a job site I found a 79 Jeep Wagoneer parked in a back yard. I asked the home owner about the Jeep and she said that she is trying to get her Husband to sell it and she invited me to look it over. I noticed that the inspection sticker expired in 1997 and the overall shape was good for the year, I also noticed a chrome Indian head on the passenger upper rear panel. I peaked inside and saw a 4 speed floor shifter that had no boot or out line of one that may have been there. I looked under the Jeep and the PTO cover was on the driver side. I also looked to see if there was any indication of a past column shift and found none. I’m confident that it’s a Jeep T-18. Any comments?
     
  18. Oct 12, 2004
    timgr

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    Cherokee, not Wagoneer. The low-end Wagoneer was replaced by the 4-door Cherokee in 1977.

    Why has it been off the road since 1997? How much rust? It'd be a shame to part it out if it's in good shape.
     
  19. Oct 12, 2004
    Chuck

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    Yes, she did say Cherokee, sorry. I’m not sure why it’s off the road, but she did say her husband starts it from time to time.
    Yes I agree, it would be a shame to part it out and I was thinking the same thing driving away. The body doesn’t have any rust to speak of and the frame looks good for being in the Northeast. I will have to wait until he calls to find out if it has any issues. If the engine and trans checks out good what would be the going price?
     
  20. Oct 12, 2004
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Not very much. They don't have much resale value, especially in the rust states. Usually they rust through the floors first, then rockers, fender flares, quarter panels. Pretty common for a 360 to have a rod knock, or at least no oil pressure at hot idle. If it doesn't run, I'd say $500-600 or so, if you think you can get it on the road. Maybe $1500 tops if it ran good. Sometimes you can practically steal them - offer $250 or $300 if it has a bad motor.

    Just as an example, I paid $1200 for my truck, and it ran/runs good. It has some rust problems (floors, rockers), but J-trucks usually go for more than wagons. Now that I know more, I think I could have bought it for less.
     
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