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Help Me Get My T18 Clutch Released!

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by 71CJ54WD, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Jan 10, 2019
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor Sponsor

    DC
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    Got the T18 install behind my Dauntless. The clutch I used is the Luk from a 76-79 CJ (01015). I installed the pressure plate and disk from that set and then found the correct length GM/Buick bearing to give me about 1/8" pedal free play. The fork I am using is stock Dauntless. When I push in my pedal I can get an inch of movement at the bellhousing...but the clutch does not disengage. Oh and pilot bushing is the Advance Adapters one.

    A search showed me that the disk hub could be bottoming out on the flywheel - I will look to see if this needs to be machined.

    A different search showed a few posts regarding clutch disk thickness...can anyone else confirm that the disk I have should work or is too thick?

    A third search brought up a discussion regarding shouldered bolts for the pressure plate - pretty sure the same bolts went in that came out.

    Finally - could I just use my old stock 225/T14 pressure plate with my new disk?

    EDIT: the advance adapters catalog lists pressure plate CF361662 for "recessed 225 flywheel." My flywheel had a lip around it but the current LUK pressure plate sat inside this lipped area without any contact. Could my issue be that I need this centerforce pressure plate?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  2. Jan 10, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Member

    Cottonwood, Ca
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    What length release bearing are you using?
    Are you sure that you have the clutch fork installed on the release bearing properly?
    Is the clutch fork on the pivot stud in the proper location?

    I am very interested in your issues as I am about to put my jeep back together with the same LUK 01015 set. I was previously running some unknown junk that came in my jeep.
     
  3. Jan 10, 2019
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor Sponsor

    DC
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    Yes to all your questions. The release bearing is National 614018 and works out to the exact clearance as spec'd on the Novak clutch page.
     
  4. Jan 10, 2019
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor Sponsor

    DC
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    Hmmm I am going to pull the T18 and try the stock 225 pressure plate with the new disk. I have a feeling theres something unique about the 225 oddfire flywheel to pressure plate dimensions and I've thrown that off with the 76-79 304 CJ pressure plate.
     
  5. Jan 10, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member Sponsor

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    Check that there is room for the hub on the disk on the splines and between the retainer and disk hub I had to trim the snout a little to get the clutch working with my np235.
     
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  6. Jan 10, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Member

    Cottonwood, Ca
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    I think that Sterclan is on to something. Where did you source your t-18?
    The release bearing that you are planning on using is the same that I have and plan to use.
    I would measure my bearing retainer length, but when I removed my trans week before last, I found that the "snout" was broken off. My only hold up for re assembly is the retainer on order.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  7. Jan 10, 2019
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor Sponsor

    DC
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    I'm going to try and pull the transmission tomorrow and use a ratchet strap on the rear axle to pull on the fork. Unless someone can say for certain they've seen this happen on my combo I think a transmission removal and diagnosis is in order.
     
  8. Jan 10, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Member

    Cottonwood, Ca
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    Yes, removal is in order. I have my t case removed, and will be putting the trans in by itself at first with no fork. This way I will be able to physically see the release bearing clearance.
     
  9. Jan 10, 2019
    71CJ54WD

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    DC
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    No put it in with the fork. You will want to move the fork back and forth to ensure you have 1/8" free play.
     
  10. Jan 10, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Member

    Cottonwood, Ca
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    The fork blocks the view.
    How long is your bearing retainer?
     
  11. Jan 10, 2019
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor Sponsor

    DC
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    I can't remember - I did the whole calculation process and bought the one that lined up. Don't guess on the retainer and measure even before going in.
     
  12. Jan 10, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Member

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    I'm asking you how long your's is, I have a couple gm 4 speeds that would have been factory mated to the BOP bell. I could measure the stick out if you like.
    I read somewhere a while back about the bearing retainer hitting the disc hub. Some people chose to grind a little off the clutch disc hub, some shortened their bearing retainer. If your t-18 was not previously mated to an operational buick or gm engine, it may be the issue.
     
  13. Jan 10, 2019
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor Sponsor

    DC
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    Oh you mean input bearing retainer, I thought you were asking about my throwout bearing retainer/carrier. The input bearing retainer is the Novak part they sell for the Ford transmissions...it came to me turned down. Thanks for the offer to measure but the bearing retainer I currently have is ok for the setup. I think input shaft splines jamming the clutch disk into the flywheel is definitely a culprit. Hopefully I can balance the trans/tcase on my jack and swing it down tomorrow. Will update this thread so you have something to work off too.
     
  14. Jan 10, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Member

    Cottonwood, Ca
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    I'm about 99.9% sure that this refers to the lighter weight GM flywheel, not the 50 something lb dauntless unit. I accidentally purchased this style of clutch kit several years ago...

    You may also have your clutch disc in backwards. It's happened to plenty of us before.
    If your bearing retainer is proper length, I'd bet that this is the issue.

    Some bearing retainer info.
    This is a stock ford t-18 short shaft input shaft and bearing retainer.

    [​IMG]

    The ford bearing retainer needs to be not only turned down to gm diameter, but shortened to the gm length.
    This pictured from left to right:
    Stock ford bearing retainer from picture above.
    Turned down bearing retainer from a drop in ready t-18 purchased from Herm the overdrive guy.
    Saginaw 4 speed bearing retainer from a trans that would be factory mated to a BOP bell housing.


    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Jan 11, 2019
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I used a jeep T 18 in my swap
    had to have bearing retainer machined down for GM throw out bearing
    and shorten for clutch pressure plate hub . maybe cause dauntless flywheel is thicker
     
  16. Jan 11, 2019
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor Sponsor

    DC
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    I have the turned down retainer from Novak on there. The disk is in the right way for sure. I'm really thinking disk hub is up against input splines but we'll know once I feel like working in the cold garage...
     
  17. Jan 11, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Member

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    If your bearing retainer is proper length we can rule that out.
    When you push the clutch does the arm bottom out on the bell housing? As in could the fork travel farther? If so, a longer pivot stud may be the solution.
    What kind of setup do you have for your clutch? Cable? Could some of your mechanical advantage be getting used up by flexing cable mounts?
    Could it be that your Long bellhousing 1971 clutch fork is different from the 66-70 short bell clutch fork?
    Your ratchet strap to rear axle idea may give you the answer, or you may be able to use a pry bar to see if the clutch fork will move further and release.

    I have been running a t-18 that I purchased from Herm and installed. I put about 10k miles on it in the last couple years.
    My jeep is currently torn apart to install a D30 front, D20 transfer case and centered D44 rear. I decided that since I had it torn apart I would change the clutch due to worn pressure plate fingers and cracked bearing retainer snout. I purchased the LUK 01015 to replace the mishmash of parts that I installed when I built my jeep. This is the reason for my intrigue into your issue. All of the measuring and research that I have done says that this should work for me with the release bearing that you have (National 614018), which I have too along with several other length release bearings. When my new bearing retainer comes in, I will turn it down to gm spec and shorten to gm length.
    Searching Novak's site, I cannot find a ready made bearing retainer. I wish I would have know that they offered one as it would have saved a little work.
    While I am doing a trial and error fit, I like to keep things as light as possible. The engine of course is still in the jeep, so I will be dry fitting the trans with no top cover or transfer case attached. Much less fighting when it weighs half as much.
     
  18. Jan 11, 2019
    71CJ54WD

    71CJ54WD Sponsor Sponsor

    DC
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    Update: removed transmission and was able to pull on arm and get disk free. When I max out on pedal travel with the clutch pedal the arm does not go far back enough. I have the OEM Buick ball stud in my bell. I think I need a longer ball stud so the amount of travel available pulls the fork back far enough. I see there is a Lakewood 15501 but it is not a complete ball shape...it has a flat on the top. My stock pivot is pretty hemispherical. Would that be an issue or is there a different ball recommended?
     
  19. Jan 11, 2019
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor

    York, PA
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    I don't know what happened when I put my JEEP together years ago (231, T14) but, I did flywheel stuff between the 225 flywheel and the 231 flywheel. Anyhow, when I put it together, I had the problem you describe......couldn't get enough travel out of the pedal or fork to depress the pressure plate far enough to release the clutch disc. I had a friend's father make me a new, longer pivot ball stud and that fixed it. Didn't know, at the time, that you could buy different length ones.

    I think you're on the right track.
     
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  20. Jan 11, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Member

    Cottonwood, Ca
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    71CJ54WD likes this.

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