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"greased Lightning" 1971 Cj-6 Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Brandon DeFord, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. Jul 1, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Nice!
     
  2. Jul 1, 2020
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    Jun 21, 2005
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    1,998
    That looks really great! I bet those dimples were a lot of work, but it should make it much easier to paint and clean, and keep rust out of the inside.
     
  3. Jul 2, 2020
    fhoehle

    fhoehle Sponsor

    Harford Township, PA
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    Apr 11, 2012
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    Nice work!
     
  4. Jul 2, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Mar 4, 2003
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    You 'should be' OK with the dimples and holes you put in. Just be sure you can flush it out an end if needed and don't let the mud and Grease/Dirt balls get too big.

    My uncle lived in Apache Junction years ago - only visited once, but it looked like a nice place for him to retire to.
     
  5. Jul 2, 2020
    Brandon DeFord

    Brandon DeFord New Member 2022 Sponsor

    Apache Junction AZ
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
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    35
    I couldn't help myself. dimple dies just look cool. I am already trying to figure out where else i can sneak them into this build.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  6. Jul 7, 2020
    Brandon DeFord

    Brandon DeFord New Member 2022 Sponsor

    Apache Junction AZ
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    35
    I finished boxing the frame today. Now I am turning my attention to the spring and shackle hangars. As I mentioned at the start I am keeping this build low and I am planning to use my rancho 44044s. here is what I
    [​IMG]
    have come up with so far:
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    I stole an idea of your build ITLKSEZ. I loved your spring hangars and I think it works perfectly with my goals. I am going to be out of town for 6 weeks with work so I have some time to think this through before I break out the hole saw. The original springs are shorter in front than the rear measuring 40" and 45" I believe. The new springs will be 47" and are offset 22.5 and 24.5. Right now I am thinking I keep the fore and aft locations of the rear shackle and spring hangars the same. they are 45.5 center to center. If I hang the spring with the 22.5 towards the front I should get the same axle location and an improved shackle angle (it was nearly 90 before). If I flip the spring I should get 2 inches of wheelbase. I am waiting to check the clearance on the fuel tank. I know it is going to be very close. On the front, it is going to be more interesting. Here is what I have:
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    And for the Spring Hangar:



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    This based on a 45.5 center to center measurement same as the rear. where it gets tricky is trying to keep the same axle position. I do not want to move it aft at all. the original is about 20" so I have to make up 2.5 to keep the axle in the original position. I have about .5 with my frenched shackle hangar. I can get another inch with a plus 1-inch perch. I am hoping that the last inch is made up in my improved shackle angle. I don't want my axle moved to the rear at all. I guess I could pull the front bumper and move the hangar location forward more... Thoughts?
     
    Fireball and ITLKSEZ like this.
  7. Jul 7, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
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    My only thoughts are that I don’t envy you. That stuff makes my brain hurt. :D

    Maybe mock everything up with sticks and plumb-bobs before you commit. Those are some high-stakes holes! Good luck!
     
  8. Jul 8, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    If your changing the geometry of the springs being used you must consider that if your not using a centered pin on the springs, they will flex differently inside vs outside (from the vehicle center-line). The Holbrooks do this as they are longer inside than outside (axle reference). This will impact how your axles move on the springs and position needed to keep things lined up.
     
  9. Jul 9, 2020
    Brandon DeFord

    Brandon DeFord New Member 2022 Sponsor

    Apache Junction AZ
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
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    35
    I think I understand what you are saying... I should run and offset spring with the intended side inboard? these Wagoneer springs are offset and my plan was to run the longer side inboard front and back. If I understand the geometry that should give my axles more travel. That spring mount location is my fulcrum so that is the fixed point to locate the axle. I've been reading tons of tech write-ups on shackle angles and I think I have come with a solution. If you take the flat spring length and subtract the sin of your desired angle multiplied by your shackle length you get your hangar to hangar measurement or hangar dis.=Flat Spring Length - sin(angle) x Shackle length. To maximize my springs I am planning a 45-degree shackle angle at full compression for my shackle which is 4.5 That will give me a hangar distance of between 43.5 and 44. I mocked it up with my carboard CAD and it looks right.
     
  10. Sep 19, 2020
    Brandon DeFord

    Brandon DeFord New Member 2022 Sponsor

    Apache Junction AZ
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    Jun 4, 2019
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    35
    Well, it has been another 2 months most of which I have been out of town for but I have a little more progress to share. After running my measurements about 100 times I broke out the hole saw and started cutting.

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    Front shackle hangars ended up being pretty much the same position as original but about 2 inches higher than the factory.

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    Spring hangars 43 inches behind the shackle hangars and recessed into the frame about 5/8 on center. the wagoneer springs are 47 inches flat. this means that with my planned shackles at max compression my shackle angle should be 30. At ride height, I am guessing 60-70 degrees but I won't know till I get it all put together and play with my leaf stacks.
    Next week I am going to see if I can get the rest of the holes drilled and the DOM tacked in so I can put this thing back on some axles. I think ill strip my leaf packs down to the mains so I can flex it and check clearances.
     
  11. Dec 3, 2020
    Brandon DeFord

    Brandon DeFord New Member 2022 Sponsor

    Apache Junction AZ
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
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    It's been a while since I have posted. I have been making slow progress but I got my first major road block. I got the 225 stripped down and sent to the machine shop. The report back was bleak. A cracked head, cylinders Need a .060 over bore. Crank needs a .030 grind. With all the work I'm looking at over $1500. I am weighing my options. I could sink the money into this engine but it has already been rebuilt once, and I feel like it's a little used up. I could try to source another 225 that has some life left in it, this option would allow me to use the parts I had already aquired for a 225. My third option is to go with a more modern Buick v6. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  12. Dec 4, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Enter obligatory “Chevy 4.3” suggestion here... :whistle:
     
    Stakebed, Walt Couch, Rich M. and 2 others like this.
  13. Dec 4, 2020
    Jeepnjesse

    Jeepnjesse New Member

    Where the beer...
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    Oct 18, 2020
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    I love where this build is going. The frenched hangers look awesome.

    For 1500 you could get a truck version LS or 2 super charged 3.8s or a 4.3. I would think pretty hard about a modern motor for the money. With the CJ6 length you also have options for drivetrain vs short wheelbase. A modern 5 or 6 speed tranny would be nice.
     
    Iandavidh likes this.
  14. Dec 4, 2020
    Iandavidh

    Iandavidh Member

    California
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    Sep 24, 2018
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    Ls swap! Ls swap! Ls swap! Ls swap!
     
    Fireball likes this.
  15. Dec 4, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    As much as I like the Dauntless, it does seem wiser to go with a fuel injected 4.3 than to start from scratch with another 225.
     
  16. Dec 5, 2020
    Brandon DeFord

    Brandon DeFord New Member 2022 Sponsor

    Apache Junction AZ
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    Jun 4, 2019
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    I know the 4.3 is a good option. In fact, that was my original plan. However, after all the time and research I put into the 225 and Buick engines in general I am very intrigued with Buick V6 options. anybody running a turbo 3.8 in a jeep? I think I am going to stay away from any v8 swaps to preserve weight and avoid to much cutting . also, everyone does a LS swap... I have to be difficult.
     
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  17. Dec 5, 2020
    Brandon DeFord

    Brandon DeFord New Member 2022 Sponsor

    Apache Junction AZ
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    Jun 4, 2019
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    I guess I have been slacking on the picture evidence that I do get into the shop every once in a while. Here is the frame progress:
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    [​IMG]
     
    ojgrsoi, 73 cj5, fhoehle and 3 others like this.
  18. Dec 8, 2020
    Brandon DeFord

    Brandon DeFord New Member 2022 Sponsor

    Apache Junction AZ
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    Jun 4, 2019
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    So I've called around and nobody seems to have Buick V6's. I did find a used MPFI 4.3 out of an 02 Silverado with 110k on it. The factory numbers look decent. I feel like I am behind the curve now since I spent the last year planning the 225 build. Anybody have words of wisdom for a 4.3 swap?
     
  19. Dec 9, 2020
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    Lockman has a turbo Jeep.
     
  20. Dec 9, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
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