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full flow oil filter for f - 134 ???

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by JeepPower, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Aug 31, 2009
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
    Messages:
    284
    Hey Guys-
    I have been displeased with the 134's oiling system since I found out it being partial flow, 20 years ago.

    I asked an old timer then about the idea of converting it a full-flow filter-- this was met with a very loud "why the hell would you do that-- no one does that!!" (or something along those lines).

    Well, here we are, 20 years later-- I finally have the balls to take this on.

    I saw someone had the idea on Willys Tech (I haven't read the entire thread, yet, myself). Here's The Link

    A well overheated and the resulting cracked block has led me to (another ) rebuild (just 40K on the cracked one)-- so I am taking it as an ideal opportunity to try this myself.

    The head scratching has started & the initial holes have been drilled & taped. The process is under way-- pics to come!

    Has anyone done this too?? Please tell!
     
  2. Aug 31, 2009
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    284
    Angle of the oil passage of the output side of the pump
    [​IMG]

    looking into the oil input side of the block (the hole that the oil coming out of the oil pump, goes into) The pencil head is showing the better-than 90* angle that the oil passage makes in order to take the oil down tot he main oil galley
    [​IMG]


    The hole that pencil is going into is on the right. It is a 3/8 hole.
    [​IMG]

    Before Drilling
    [​IMG]

    Drilling pilot hole by eye. Got it right on!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Drilled & tapped both holes for 1/4 NPT. The old oil input will get a flush plug & the new input will get a street elbow.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Sep 2, 2009
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    BUMP--

    no-one has done this before???
     
  4. Sep 2, 2009
    panzer

    panzer Super Mod Staff Member Sponsor

    Columbus, OH
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,241
    X2. Have a friend who used a remote oil filter and always had
    oil pressure issues. To the point where he destroyed 2 of the
    fiber timing gear.

    On the last rebuild he went back to the stock filter and has
    had no problem.

    Something about full-flow not keeping the pressure up in the
    motor. Looking for the article I found and will post it.
     
  5. Sep 2, 2009
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
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    8,560
    I figure if it had been a major issue the factory would have redesigned something way back when, so I've never even given it a second thought.
     
  6. Sep 2, 2009
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    5,545
  7. Oct 24, 2009
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    284

    Thanks for the link-


    Yes-- it was a big concern of mine too-- i did some research (poking & prodding) and found that some of the feed galleries are drilled to 3/16.

    Another surprise was the oil pump-- the main feed galley out of the pump is drilled to 3/8, or whatever, but the inlet into that galley is about hlaf that size! Pics to come.

    I'm planning on getting this engine installed sometime within the next few weeks, so will have more pics and such then!
     
  8. Oct 25, 2011
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    284

    well, a few weeks, a few years, what's the difference??

    I am pushing to get this engine in before the snow falls. The CJ has to be ready to push the stuff around.

    [​IMG]

    I drilled the pump out last night-

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    threaded ( I goofed & drilled it for 3/8NPT)
    [​IMG]


    (yeah, these are the same greasy/oil parts & places from above-- just cleaned!)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  9. Oct 25, 2011
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    284
    what I forgot to take a photo of was the fact that I plugged the original passageway on the block.

    I put a flush mount plug in the left hole shown here.
    [​IMG]

    this way the oil will flow out the hole in the oil pump, through the filter,and then back onto the block.

    As we all know, the oiling system is crucial to the engine. My plan is to test all this out before starting the engine.

    I have installed the pump, left the distributor drive gear off of the pump shaft. After the engine is installed, I plan on inserting a screwdriver-like extension into the engine & driving the pump with a drill. I am looking to get the oil pressure up & making sure all is working before actually starting the engine. Once that is all tested, I'll pull the pump back out & install the gear.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  10. Oct 25, 2011
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
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    Apr 8, 2008
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    561
    gosh all this time and i thought full flow go devil / hurricane was proven
    now you can run an oil cooler!!!
    what oil filter bracket are you looking at running?
    don't forget the partial flow filter restricts the flow and cannot be used in a full flow setup :)
     
  11. Oct 25, 2011
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    Oct 6, 2009
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    I would be concerned about restricting the flow-------are you going to be using 90* fittings here??

    Also, the inside diameter of the passages is what you need to be concerned with, if you use a fitting that threads into the original passage, its inside diameter is going to be quite a bit smaller.

    I would suggest you maintain a minimum inside diameter of all your fittings and tubing, that is at least what the passage in the pump is.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Oct 25, 2011
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    Still have to figure that out... I have something that might work. Just have to get it on the bench & take a close look at it. It will be cool-as-hell to use the OEM canister, but that may involve too much modification....

    Any suggestions?


    Agreed. I did check out all the galleys in the engine & plan on keeping the stuff I add to atleast 3/8" ID. The galley that runs from the pump to the main galley is that size. Surprisingly it is smaller than the two it connects.



    Thanks for the suggestions/attention. I am quite nervous/anxious about pulling this off. It is a crazy idea, but one I've been bouncing around for 20+ years. I just have to try it out!
     
  13. Oct 25, 2011
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
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    quick and cheap get ya going http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-1028/?rtype=1
    leave the bypass intact for originality and put the remote bracket wherever is preferred...
    but... i recall older tractors such as 60s farmalls using full flow canisters
    the full flow filter medium must be pleated paper.. "not twine in can" otherwise there will be too much restriction at the filter and the engine will starve.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  14. Oct 26, 2011
    acme66

    acme66 New Member

    Plains, Montana
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    May 28, 2009
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    Neat project. When I did a remote filter I just tapped into the front oilier and throttled it down to keep the oil pressure up. I like your idea better.
     
  15. Dec 10, 2011
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    OK-- did a test run last night (no drive gear on the pump & the distributor out.)

    It works well-- it self primed & got up to pressure. I could get it to 25+PSI (once it was primed) using just a screwdriver, by hand.

    As can be seen, I am using the OEM filter assembly. I modified the filter housing to allow for this-- both inlets & outlets are drilled out to allow for 1/4 NPT (3/8ID on all those fittings) and the holes in the tube inside the filter has been drilled out to 3/8". (Pics of that to follow).

    I am hoping to get this engine in & running before Christmas!

    [​IMG]

    pressure using the cordless drill-- at less than 100RPM
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  16. Dec 29, 2011
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    engine is in. Hope to start it tonight.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Dec 30, 2011
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    Got it running last night. Here's a quick vid of it running this AM-- it was 30*F out. The engine has NO miles on it, so power & throttle response are kinda weak.

    [video=facebook;10150496249149035]https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150496249149035&saved[/video]

    Details of the filter setup
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  18. Feb 23, 2012
    JeepPower

    JeepPower Hopeless Gearhead

    Fort Mill, SC
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    update-- it's got about 100 miles on it & is running GREAT!

    The oil pressure averages about 60PSI-

    I need some help/reference, please.

    How long does your oil light take to go off, once the engine is running? I can't remember how long mine used to take- just never payed attention to it. Of course, now I'm paying close attention to it. It takes a bit longer than I like (about 4 seconds, from the time I start cranking, till the light goes off/pressure comes up).

    I did put a Moroso oil-line check valve (moroso PN:23875) at the bottom of the delivery line. This significantly cut the delay in developing initial pressure.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Feb 23, 2012
    strvger

    strvger Member

    arrowhead of...
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
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    looks like a great upgrade! hope you get it out and about enough to get a more long term eval of your mod.
     
  20. Feb 26, 2012
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
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    mine took over 4 sec in the cold, and it had the high volume gear pump.
    it takes 5psi to turn the switch so i would be weary on a fresh engine
    what filter element are you using???
    in the pics it looks like you are measuring with the gauge before the oil is filtered, as the light is after the filter medium.
    I would also see if 20min with an oil pan heater makes it turn off sooner, warm oil will pump easier.
    and another check valve on the return to the block will help keep the lines from draining by adding a pound of resistance to gravity.
    are you using a gear or gyrotor style pump?
     

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