Full floating Dana 44

Do you guys have any more details on the "one piece drive gears" ?

 

Another note: the stock axles for the offset flanged 44 are discontinued and are very hard to find. Last time a friend needed one, he had to use a Wagoneer flanged axle and had it cut and re-splined. How about using a Wagoneer or truck flanged 44 and having it cut to make an off set 44 for a CJ, Currie products?? (if a person can't find a stock CJ flanged off set 44)
I'm also building a 57 FC150 (same 81" wheelbase as my CJ) and have installed a stock flanged Wagoneer 44, there is some off set to the pinion already and the drive line looks like it will work fine with the Dana 18 TC, but I won't know for sure about vibration until its running.
My 70 CJ5 has a VP Turbo 400, Dana 18 and the off set 44. The rear driveshaft in 10" long U joint center to U joint center, 3 inched of tube and the rest is slip yoke. The angle isn't bad and its been running for 30 years now, just made the vintage run through the Rubicon last week.
Will R

 

R&P has the flanged offset shafts for CJ's made all the time. They are cut and resplined shafts. You can cut down a waggy axle into an offset cj 44 but it gets expensive quick. It is an option though

To the op, you can use the Ford hub and rotor and get internal hubs or drive flanges see imadoughball's thread on his cj6 in the builds section. He recently did this with help from R&P.

 

thanks Will R, I could have never remembered all that for Eric M.

 

Hi Steve:
GREAT PIC. I think I remember that spot!!
And thanks for the axle info nickmil, yes it is costly to have an axle cut down but like you say, it is an option (OEM flanged offset 44s are hard to find )
Will R.

 

Put the warn full floater kit in my 74, and the locking hubs. problems came when I wanted to convert to disc. ended up getting the ssb disc conversion for a 20 and fabricating my own spacers to adapt it to the 44. flange hole are the same . worked out ok. I like it.

Dave

 

I'm curious as to what problems you ran into? The disc with the Warn ff kit is very easy to do. Done 20 or 30 at least over the years with great results....

 

SSB makes a conversion kit for the dana 20 but not the dana 44 with the warn locking hubs, the warn locking hub for the 20 & 44 are the same hub. After a few discussions with the SSB techs. they sent me the conversion kit for the 20. The kit is the same except for the spacer size. I fabricated spacers to properly align the pads with the rotors. Everything fit up well at that point. the frustration was mostly getting all that figured out.
SSB can convert Dana 44 with locking hubs but does not have a kit to convert a 44 with locking hubs and a full floating kit as well. Maybe they do now but the tech said they do not have many requests for that.
Thx
Dave

 

Ok, great info here, but what problems did you run into wanting to convert the 44 to discs? Was it because you specifically wanted the SSBC kit and they didn't make one for your application? There are other ways to go as well. Warn made brackets to convert their ff kits to disc as well.

Also, you say Dana 20? Do you mean AMC Corporate 20 rear axle? Dana 20 is a transfer case.

 

Yes, I wanted the SSB conversion in the rear because I used the SSB conversion in the front and they do not make a conversion for the full float application. Initially I tried the Warn solution however it did not work out, as they fabricated a bracket and then gave a list of parts to obtain to make the conversion work,,IE Wrangler rotors/cadillac brakes. I used the part numbers that Warn suggested and fit everything up only to find the E brake came off the calipers in opposite directions and I had to get the e- brake cable brackets from an old caddilac in the junk yard. I ended up trashing all that and working with the SSB people to resolve the issue.The above is what I ended up doing.
Maybe there was an easier way, but the system that is in place now seems pretty sanitary. I just had the brake cables made up for it and the fit up OK.
I can snap some pics for you if you want but you will have to help me get them on the blog. I am not that handy with that kind of stuff.
I believe it was an AMC 20 or might of been the Dana 30 that had the same flange pattern as the Dana 44 and that was the conversion kit they sent me, and adapted that to the Full floating 44. I can dig up the information if you want and give you the contact at SSB. He was an old timer there.

Dave

 

Ok. Makes sense to me.
If you use the Warn brackets it's CJ thin rotors and Cadillac Calipers or Firebird/Camaro Calipers with park brake works great. If you don't need the park brake Chev S-10 front calipers work great. I have the Warn brackets with CJ thin rotors and Camaro park brake calipers and it was a bolt on with no shimming or messing around...
Same set up I've installed for lots of people back when we were a Warn Axle Dealer...

 

Roger,,, that was my initial intent however I could not find the technical assistance to accomplish it. The information from Warn was minimal and they told me the guy that set that conversion up for them was no longer working for them and they did not know anything more than the bracket availability and the print out of the after market part numbers. So off I went... Where were you 12 months ago.. LOL.
Wile I have your attention, what do think about the fact that I left the stock proportioning valve in and placed a balancing valve between the proportioner and the rear system. Some are saying to eliminate the proportioner and place 2# check valves front and rear. what do you think???

THX
Dave

 

Been here since 2002 and was building ff kits before Warn was. In fact they came to the shop asking questions before they started building 'em

I like to use an adjustable proportioning valve in the rear circuit. Otherwise when hard braking and the front is doing most of the work the rear's have a tendency to lock up. Can cause the rear to pass the front. NOT a good situation as you can imagine, especially with a short wheel base, generally lifted vehicle. Modern vehicles use a couple different valves to keep this from happening. In the interest of simplicity so you can dial it in for your specific application and parts the adjustable is the way to go imho. Modern vehicles can use a metering valve in the front, proportioning valve (non adjustable) in the rear, or a combination thereof. Not necessary for our application.

 

It seems that this thread has progressed past the positives and negatives of FF rear axles, but I thought I would add my 2 cents and share with you my experiences, which are similar to Will R's. I have never blown a hub, but I have broke the spring and retainer inside several hubs. As a result, I went to solid drive flanges, but over time, the splines inside the flanges started to strip out. The solution was to go back to hubs and install a small piece of pipe between the sliding gear inside the hub and the outer cap, basically converting the hubs into drive flanges. This setup has lasted the longest without any issues. I believe it is because the steel in the hubs is of a much higher quality then that used in the drive flanges I bought. If I could, I would trade my rear axle for an offset flanged 44 if it had the correct gearing and a locker. Good luck, Don

 

I have heard about this modification as well.

 

Warn used to supply the pieces of tube to do this mod. Most of the spline wear issues in the hub end is caused by bent housings or housings flexing. When prototyping the ff kit for the AMC Corporate 20, Warn found NOS housings that were bent from the factory before they were ever installed....Reason the hub with piece of tube lasts longer is it has some give where drive flanges typically don't.

Again, I've been running my ff kit for many, many years and have never had an issue. I do carry a couple of drive flanges in case of hub breakage though. I just tore down the rear to re-pack the bearings and the axles look almost new as do the hubs.

 

This is all really great info, Thanks Please tell me if this current kit your refering to still requires that the spindle be bored out to allow the axle to be installed (seal surface on axle to pass through)
Will R

 

Yes, the spindles must be bored as do the backs to fit the axle housing end. No big deal. I ran bored out drum brake spindles until a month ago when I went to bored out disc spindles. Mostly because I had them and recently machined them as the seal surfaces were getting rough on the old ones. The old ones were still perfectly fine except where the seal rides. The Warn spindles were bored out as well so the axle could pass through.

I don't run seals on the outer end of the axle and have no problems with leakage. My shafts only neck down to the 27 spline to fit in the hub, not for any other reason unlike some other shafts out there. I can remove the shaft without removing the bearing hub or spindle if I want.

 

I experienced several lockout hub failures with a Warn FF conversion using Warn Premium hubs. I also ran a Lock Right which I think contributed to the failures. No just the Lock Right, but any auto locking rear end. After the last hub took out my Lock Right when it grenaded, I switched to a Detroit and Warn drive slugs, which are very pricey if you go with the Ford style rear hub (internal spiles). I have since ditched the Detroit in favor of a full spool. No clunking and banging, and very predictable. I'd never go back to an auto locker in the rear. My main point is, the Ford style hubs may be stronger, but be ready to fork over some serious cash for the drive slugs if you buy Warn. I didn't find any others out there, but maybe Ford has them.

 

Honestly Posi I think your tire choice has a lot to do with it. Those tires are very heavy and have a LOT of leverage on the stock housing. I think the housing was flexing to a point that it was causing your damage issues. That size tires on that size housing/axle is on the verge of too much. It's workable as you've shown, but very close to too much.

Ford doesn't make the drive slugs but other companies do.
I run a Lock Rite and the same FF kit I originally built and still have no issues like I said. However I'm running 33x12.50x15" radials, nothing anywhere near as heavy what you are, and a mildly built V-6 (220 hp dyno'd at the wheels).

Again, most ff failures are due to housing flex or not running the right mixture of parts.

A ff is not for everyone, nor does everyone need one. IMHO it's a great option for many if put together right and used in the correct application.