1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Full floating Dana 44

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by CJ-X, Feb 7, 2008.

  1. Feb 7, 2008
    CJ-X

    CJ-X Member

    Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    816
    Anyone know of an easy way to make a rear flanged 44 into a full floater and still keep the 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern and disc brakes? I do not care about the lockout hubs, just the strength.
     
  2. Feb 7, 2008
    48cj2a

    48cj2a http://bantamt3c.com

    Central Illinois
    Joined:
    May 4, 2003
    Messages:
    526
    Herm the overdrive guy was working on full floater kits. Check his web site.
     
  3. Feb 7, 2008
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    8,513
    forgive me for asking but why do you feel the need to change ?
    you have the strongest already in my opinion.
    is it just for the discs ? they can be adpated with what you have.
     
  4. Feb 8, 2008
    48cj2a

    48cj2a http://bantamt3c.com

    Central Illinois
    Joined:
    May 4, 2003
    Messages:
    526
    Jim,

    Good point, I would leave the sought after flanged 44 alone. Now a 19 or even 10 spine 44 with the two piece axle shafts would be a different situation and a good upgrade.
     
  5. Feb 8, 2008
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    4,585
    I know when i changed over, i wanted to be able to lock out for towing, and it was MUCH easier to service the wheel bearings.
     
  6. Feb 8, 2008
    CJ-X

    CJ-X Member

    Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    816
    I currently have disc brakes already using jeep calipers. But, while I am in the middle of swapping housings (cracked), I am thinking about adding adding wagoneer/chevy spindles, Ford discs, GM brakes, and there should be a drive flange to replace the hubs. I believe I have to do some machining to make the spindles work.

    Would the drive flange set-up hold up well to the torque.

    I am wondering if there is a better way, or wonder what snags I may run into.

    I also am wondering if I could create a flanged full floater using jeep hubs instead of ford hubs.

    I know it sounds like a lot of work to some, and others would say step up to a 60, but I like the light weight of a 44, and I already have the locker and gears, and driveshaft set for the 44.
     
  7. Feb 8, 2008
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    2,622
    Herm's kit is for 19 spline axles. I think the bolt pattern on the end of the tubes is different, and you'd have to change out the carrier. Gonna be 'spensive, and again, why mess with a 30 spline axle?
     
  8. Feb 8, 2008
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    8,513
    I don't know if it would be a strong as what you have know.
    One advantage FF does have is the wheel doesn't fall off if you break an axle; that can and will happen with tapered or flanged axles.
    I see you're set up for crawling, and a broken flanged axle in a bad spot would create some major problems.
    So, is a FF axle stronger that a flanged axle, I don't know.
     
  9. Feb 8, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    All else being equal a full float axle will be stronger as the axle simply transmits torque and rotation motion and does not support the weight of the vehicle. You don't have the shaft flexing like you do with a flanged axle.

    I would not however go from a 30 spline flanged to a 19 spline full float axle as 19 spline is weaker in the splined area. There are several ways of building full float kits just as there are several ways of doing disc brakes. I don't have time to write it all up on here right now but IIRC Dr. Vern had a writeup on his site about that. I promised Warloch some time ago I'd do a write up but it hasn't happened yet. You can buy 30 spline FF shafts from R&P but they aren't exactly cheap... you can also have Dutchman Motorsports make some but you have to supply blueprints. I believe Superior or Moser will make them also. Nickmil
     
  10. Feb 9, 2008
    80cj

    80cj Member

    Hawaii
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    554
    With a 30 spline FF, I think the integrity of the set up would depend on how you get the power to the wheel hubs. If you use a six bolt flange, the stength would be questionable. If you use a Ford/Chevy front hub with the internal/external spline setup, you should have no problems.
     
  11. Feb 10, 2008
    Ghetto Fab.

    Ghetto Fab. Member

    Atascadero, Ca.
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    512
    Yup, if your going to do the full float conversion do it right and skip the external hubs. Get some chevy/waggy small bearing spindles and some ford 1/2ton front wheel hubs that use the internal lockouts. Then you can run 30 spline lockouts or driveflanges.

    Having done one full float conversion though, I really don't see the point unless you flat tow. Thats the only real advantage I enjoyed with mine as it was super easy to tow. I'd say keep the flanged rear axle as its simple and works, then just carry a spare shaft assy. Unless your a throttle jockey or run 37"+ tires its doubtfull you'll ever need it. If your snapping housings in 1/2 you might consider trussing it.

    Kevo
     
  12. Sep 1, 2008
    Zup

    Zup New Member

    Joliet
    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    38
    Is the rear disc brake set up different for flanged and tapered axles. I have a flanged rear 44 and would like to add disc to it.
     
  13. Sep 1, 2008
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,538
    Unless you can come up with something different, a set of Warn drive flanges will run you close to $600. IMO locking hubs don't hold up well on a rear axle with a locker.
     
  14. Sep 1, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    Also keeps the wheel from separating from the vehicle if you do have axle shaft problems. That a huge advantage...
     
  15. Sep 1, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    Depends on driving style, hp, and tire size. I've been running locking hubs on mine since the early to mid 90's and haven't replaced one yet. I also know some people that have broken the bearing hubs around the drive flanges so ymmv.
     
  16. Aug 13, 2011
    Will R

    Will R New Member

    Santa Cruz Ca
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    I installed the Smitty Built FF axle kit(discontinued long ago)many years ago in my 70 CJ5 rear offset 44. I took out flanged axles to run the floater kit and had a power lock at that time. constant problems, the dirve flanges never held up, wore out the splines and always looked dry and rusty. Tried to keep them lubed, but that didn't help. The Smitty Built kit said it fit up to 1969 offset 44, didn't see why it wouldn't work in my 70 CJ5 until I was on the Sierra Trek and blew the inner axle tips off in the Power Lock. The Power Lock has a two part drive gear, the axle worked out to the drive flang end and left very little axle at the inner part of the Power Lock inner half of the drive gear. It took off the inner axle tip ,about 1/8 ". Had to remove the carrier on the trail. loosen the case bolts, re-allign the drive gear and file the axle splines. pushed the axles in as deep as possible and welded at the drive flange end to keep the axles from walking out again. Also I never liked how the spindles had to be bored to let the axles slide through, very thin. Also friends who ran the Warn hubs; had hub failures evetually, nothing really lasted or was dependable. I did discover that the offset rear flanged 44 housing is about 1/4" wider than the tappered axle offset rear 44 housing, so this allowed the axles to walk out of the inner Power Lock drive gears. In the end I junked the full floater kit and went back to the flanged axles, with proper maintenace of the axle bearings and I've never had a flanged axle failure.The pin and two buttons inside the different carriers is to allow for adjusting the axle end play on tappered axles. the axles must load across the carrier and are shimmed out at the backing plate to set the end float for a tappered axle. I don't know if they are necessary; when running the FF axles as there is no end float to set. If you run the FF kit, try to detemine how deep the axles run in your carrier drive gears and the drive flanges or locking hubs and set it up to give you all the spline contact at both ends of the axle you can get using a snap ring or maybe a weld bead on the tip of the drive flange splines before installing on the axles or ????? Good Luck
    Will R :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
  17. Aug 13, 2011
    EricM

    EricM Active Member

    Southern California
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,019
    Will R,

    As I'm sure Steve told you, I'm going through the same issues. Here's what it looks like when the full floater axle slips out of the POWR LOK:

    [​IMG]

    I'm on the lookout for a flanged dana 44.
     
  18. Aug 13, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    One piece side gears takes care of that problem. Can be sourced from Jaguars and I believe Studebakers. Were you running a snap ring on the hub end of the axle shaft? That locates the shaft and keeps them from this happening as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
  19. Aug 13, 2011
    Will R

    Will R New Member

    Santa Cruz Ca
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Hi Eric (and everyone) Yes Eric, Steve told me about your issues with the FF set up and one piece drive gears would be an answer (thanks Nickmil) I'm not familure with the current FF kits or what other upgrades are available but your pictures are exactly what happened to me. If the spindle is still bored out to fit the axle in the current kit, that would be a concern for me and there is still the issue of excess wear at the drive flange end. If I tried the FF kit again, I would try to determine just how much spline is in the drive gear and hub flange and do whatever it takes (snap ring, one piece drive gears etc.) to stop excess axle shift to maintain as much spline contact at each axle end as possible.
    As I said before, I believe the 70 44 is slightly wider than the earlier tappered 44 housing and this contributed to the problem.

    I don't want to take away from anyone who wants to run a FF setup, the idea of it is great and has advantages, but my experiance soured me. I do have the flanged off set 44 so I'll stick with that. ( it is criticle to maintain the axle bearings, a friend who didn't had an axle fail and come out) I have had a tappered 44 axle snap off just outside the wheel bearing and the tire, brake drum and rear hub all came off. If it had been at freeway speed it could have ended my Jeeping days! So I'm sold on flanged axles.
    I do own a flanged DJ two wheel drive postal Jeep 44, it has some off set but I believe it is about 1/2" overall narrower than the factory flanged 44 that came in m 70 CJ5. When I get a chance I'll measure the two rear end widths and post the info. unless some one already knows the answer. Maybe a DJ flanged 44 would work in a CJ, spring pads might have to be moved and even if the pinion isn't pefectly behind the Dana 18 output. A standard U joint will run from 1 to 22 degrees and shouldn't care if is up and down or a little side ways.

    I did go through two sets of FF axles and several drive hubs before giving up.
    Will R
     
  20. Aug 13, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    Measure the DJ overall width carefully. There are at least 3 different widths that I'm aware of and getting the correct shaft if there is a problem can be a challenge.
    A u-joint "can" run at 22 degrees but no way will it do it without vibration at that high of an angle. The velocity change of the shaft/joint as it rotates is just too great. Rule of thumb is 7 degrees or less and the front and rear joint must run within 2-3 degrees of each other or less. Less is much, much better. Depending on length of shaft I've seen 1 1/2 degree difference set up one heck of a vibration. The longer the drive shaft the more forgiving they tend to be.
     
New Posts