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Front Frame Horns

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by colojeepguy, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. Jul 12, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    I've been having problems with frame cracks on the front frame horns, and last night I found another one right behind the bumper near the front spring mount. I know some of you have done "nose jobs" on your Jeeps...basically replacing the whole frame in front of the crossmember under the radiator. This is way beyond my fabrication skills, so I'll have to find a shop that can do it, but I'd still like to see some pictures of how you did it...especially how it was attached to the existing frame.
    BTW this is a 70 CJ5 with a stock V6, Saginaw swap, and a tow bar and electric winch on the front...I'm sure the steering, winch and tow bar are contributing to the problem.
     
  2. Jul 12, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I'm scheduled to do this to a friend's '68 frame in a few weeks. Stay tuned to the fabricators section down the hall. I'll take pics and run a thread on it.
     
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  3. Jul 12, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Looking forward to seeing those...I had a co worker weld the Crack today, but it's just a band aid to get me through next week's trip to Black Bear Road.
     
  4. Jul 12, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Aw man. Have fun. Beautiful stuff!
     
  5. Jul 13, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    That area up front where the spring hanger is below will get a twist in it from the spring working below..........Normally boxing that section in from the cross-member to the front bumper will eliminate that?.............was yours done when you did the Saginaw Box?

    Do you have a steering brace on the Saginaw box to the opposite side frame rail ?

    Side plates on the outside of the frames rails from the bumper back to the first cross-member helps to transmit that load and strain from the winch rearward back into the chassis.



    Common problem on the rear hanger also....rather than boxing the rear I sometimes do this to keep it from cracking.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Side plates prior to welding

    [​IMG]
    Steering Brace
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Jul 13, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    The frame isn't boxed (I used a stock intermediate CJ cast iron steering box mount for my Saginaw swap) and I don't have a steering box brace. But the major problems I'm having have been near the ends of the frame...I think from the stresses of many years and miles of flat towing. I also cracked the frame badly lengthwise on both sides+ the first time I had to use my winch for a serious stuck.
    Your steering box brace is very nice...is that bought or built?
     
  7. Jul 13, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    Have you completed the Non-power Saginaw over to Power Steering yet? I assume the damage you mention above occurred prior to going to power? The reason I ask is the Power Steering will put a much greater strain on the frame and related components up there...............the boxing of the front frame horns is pretty much needed , not only for the Power Steering but as you mentioned for the attachment of a strong bumper up there for towing and winch mounting.

    A good steering brace off the sector shaft to the opposite side frame rail completes the package and if you use the winch allot the side plates are also helpful to broaden out the stress created by tugging on those horns.

    Post some pictures of what you have , perhaps we can help!

    Note: The steering brace I made here.

    Not the best picture of the front driver side frame horns being boxed but this is what my setup looked like.........gear box mount and forward of that area.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  8. Jul 13, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    At least yours doesn't sound as bad as this...
    This is what I'm going to be picking up and working with. Hard to believe a running jeep was disassembled to find this.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jul 13, 2016
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    I need to install a "Dislike" button. That's one bad crack.
     
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  10. Jul 13, 2016
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    Tarry,

    I see more pix without the brace than with it. Why is there so much strain?
     
  11. Jul 13, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    Just the nature of power steering........lots of force created by the hydraulics.........For example: the sector shaft and Pittman arm are given a signal to turn right........lets say your right wheel and tire are up against a rock on the right side? The hydraulics doesn't care it can overcome that force by either pushing the vehicle away from the rock by using the tire and rock as leverage or bend the frame rail on the left side where the box is mounted........the crossover steering box brace just ties the sector shaft / Pittman arm into both front frame rails.........lots of times that action will also break the housing.........Keep in mind the flimsy 1940 era frame rails were not designed to take that stress or load..........
     
  12. Jul 13, 2016
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Doug, I box all of my setups when I do the conversion.

    Up to you, but a couple Saturdays with a plan in hand and steel on the rack would fix that out here at the house ;)

    I don't do the fancy bracket that Terry does, but I've not had an issue yet.
     
  13. Jul 14, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    I just may take you up on that, Chuck....after the four wheeling season is over!
    I'm hoping that our patch job will hold for the rest of the summer....
     
  14. Jul 14, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    20160713_113850.jpg Here's the front of my jeep....that's a Warn winch mounting plate. Note that it ties into the frame on the sides.
    20160713_113937.jpg
    This picture was taken from below, looking up at the very front of the frame. You can see where it was cracked and welded.

    20160713_113912.jpg
    This is the passenger side front frame horn. You can see at the bottom where it was welded back together after it cracked when I use the winch.
    20160713_113957.jpg
    Here's a picture of my steering box, and how it is mounted. I pretty much tried to duplicate an intermediate Jeep CJ steering setup.
     
  15. Jul 14, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Looks to be all fixable.........but I would think you'll have to strip all the previous repairs and find a new base to start from..............Chuck is more than capable.

    If you haven't already that may be a good time to get your Power Steering going also.
     
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