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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Nov 3, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    Man, you must be super annoyed.

    As far as i know, there's no way to test the module. Your symptoms of no start and no spark are exactly what I experienced with a bad module. You're going to eeed to see if you have spark with an inline tester of some sort.

    If you got it running with the old distributor for even a little bit, its the module. Since it stopped running I would bet you also have a fuel issue.

    Im just internet guessing here, but this is where I would look first. Module and then fuel.
     
  2. Nov 3, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member

    exploring the...
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    with the delco dist in if it fits pertronix is a good option i would ditch the accell stuff and go with factory replacements. when it died was the accell coil installed? small blocks are pretty forgiving as a ruls sorry you are having trouble.no room for a full sized hei in there? those things are really reliable.
     
  3. Nov 3, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
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    Well that's not fun,
    12v is Correct for the testing, I did something similar when i put a 85 Toyota pickup on a failed omix-ada electronic distributor with a gm 4pin hei module.
    The pickup coil should measure 500 to 1500 ohms less than 500 would indicate a short more than 1500 would be a loose connection.
     
  4. Nov 3, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I agree with checking fuel first. Rule that out as a problem before going further.
     
  5. Nov 3, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    There are so many options for aftermarket and oem replacement distributors, but I don't think any of them will fit in the space. It is only a smidge over 3" in diameter and has a very short height above the intake. I am not sure the standard delco points sbc distributor with the window from 57 and on will fit....I don't mind points as long as they can be easily adjusted externally (like the 225 delco distributor). The 55 265 distributor has no option for external points adjustment, and since its so difficult to access, there is no practical way for me to adjust in place with the cap off etc, and thus removal is needed ....This pertronix system looks to be the right one - has the mech advance under the breaker plate....might try to clean my 55 dist up and install this....
    electronic-ignition-conversions

    It was quite clear as soon as I put the points distributor in that I had spark again...the timing light picked it up, and as the rotor was roughly pointed at the right terminal, it would fire and sputter, but not run. With a tweak to the timing it ran, and then it was easy to get it to run normal with the initial timing at 10 or so BTDC. But then not sure why its dying on the points....not sure if I am loosing spark or loosing fuel. I had to wire the points distributor back - I never took a picture apparently, so I think I got the coil (-) wire to the points terminal shared with the condensor wire, and the breaker plate grounded to the housing - but I am not sure if I did that right and maybe I am having a grounding issue with the points (its never just died out on the road before). But it does like to die on my driveway which is a little short and steep uphill - maybe fuel issue, although I don't know what else to do with the quadrajet. I rebuilt it to my best ability, and then I have had it apart and back together just to ensure all the gaskets are nice and fitted and everything seems to be sealed up as good as possible. When it died, its not like its sputtered, like I associate with fuel - its a dead quit like key was turned off, which I associate with spark getting shut off....? I guess the only good news is that I couldn't pull it on a strap into my garage, and the hill is too steep for me to push solo, so its sitting in the street in front of the house, which means my wife got her garage spot back.
     
  6. Nov 3, 2019
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Member 2020 Sponsor

    Omaha NE
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    Hey brother, I just finished reading the last few pages of your thread. I’m feeling for you and really hope you get things sorted out. We’ve all been in your shoes so we can relate to what your going through. Stay after it and you’ll get it figured out. Best of luck to you.
     
  7. Nov 3, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    If it just died and no sputter it does sound ignition related, bad connection as you seem to suspect. I feel your pain, it sucks chasing down elusive troubles.
     
  8. Nov 4, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Ok, think I may have both fuel and ignition issues....but its running again....I got it running (for whatever reason it started up) and back in the garage (so my wife is gonna be a bit annoyed when she gets home) and spent some time tweaking the timing (backed off initial to 10 BTDC) and also re-checked carb screw settings. Idle mix actually seemed about right, but slow idle speed was way too low, and it wouldn't run (the screw was actually backed off so much that that it wasn't in contact with the throttle linkage). So got that bumped back up to about 680 rpm and it at least kept running. I am thinking when I last tuned it, I did not allow it to get to full temp, or at least the automatic thermal choke and fast idle cam thingy didn't get fully disengaged, and it was running with a bit of open throttle plate...I remember what little I spent trying to tune before I started the whole distributor fiasco, that I backed the low idle speed screw all the way out, and nothing happened, and I closed the idle mix all the way down, and it didn't really stumble...Today, with the fast idle cam all the way off, the slow idle mix screw became a factor as well as the idle mix screws...so that is all good (might still need to close the idle mix screw down a bit more).
    But there is some issues still...The idle has a bit of a misfire and there is some exhaust backfire under throttle. Mechanical advance is at least partially active, but vacuum advance is non-functional (the reason I pulled the distributor to begin with). The timing isn't as consistent as I'd like, although as it warmed up the timing did stabilize pretty good. Probably need to shim the distributor gear a bit. The rpm is also a bit less consistent than I'd like - although some of that might be my meter - it doesn't seem to like taking measurements around the sbc maybe because of the interference from the generator. I definitely can't get a decent reading from the driver size next to the generator. Finally, I am getting some weird signal on coil (-) terminal. I wanted to check/confirm rpm using the coil (-) negative terminal instead of my induction clip, and its completely random noise/junk/senseless readings. I also tried to check dwell which also uses the coil (-) terminal, and again get nothing but senseless noise. Not sure what is going there, but thinking it might be related to the misfire...
    So, I am going to pull the distributor, and check the point gap manually with feeler gauge - wondering if that might be causing some of the issue. Also, maybe I have a grounding issue with the points/condenser....Here is my pic of the breaker plate: you can see the coil (-) wire going to the points terminal combined with the condenser wire. Its the black wire by the vac can that grounds the housing to the breaker plate that I think I need to do differently...I think I need to ground it to the screw that holds the condensor bracket instead of the post for the vac can arm...
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Nov 4, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
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    My q-jet would shut down abruptly like an ignition off. The accelerator pump was torn and the internal sintered brass filter was not flowing well.
     
  10. Nov 4, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    Time it with a vacuum gauge and see what it tells you about the engine
     
  11. Nov 4, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    yes...I need a different size hose to fit the vacuum nipple on the engine and then mate it to the vac gauge...its never as easy as it should be....
    I just drop the distributor back in after putting a feeler gauge to the points and trying to clean them just a bit - they don't look new. Re-did the housing/breaker plate ground the way I think it should be and hopefully give me a good signal off the coil (-) wire for rpm and dwell....Was just about to try starting things up and my wife brought me some skis that needed a bit of maintenance asap so that took priority....does make me happy to work on skis...something I know how to fix! How is it 9:30 already....damn, time to go to bed....
     
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  12. Nov 5, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
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    I guess fixing skis might cover parking for a night.
     
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  13. Nov 5, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member

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    Happy wife =happy life.
     
  14. Nov 5, 2019
    45es

    45es Member 2019 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    If you want an HEI ignition that will fit your needs, contact "Dave's small-body HEI's". He can convert your distributor to HEI.

    DAVE's small-body HEI's
     
  15. Nov 5, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    We are selling some used gear so my wife posted stuff up on Marketplace yesterday morning. I wanted to fix them up and have the ready to sell but didn't figure the demand would be immediate...one pair was scheduled to be looked at tomorrow so I was working on those, and then she walks into the garage with another pair and says someone wants to buy these tonight in about an hour...ok, quick fix and all is good to go...back to working on the wagon...then she walks in with a 3rd pair AND a stranger who apparently is interested to buy that pair right now (think he was the one buying the previous pair). These hadn't even been posted for sale yet - so quick rush job while talking to buyer and of course he wanted to learn how to do a little maintenance work on them himself....In the end, its all worth it, we made a few hundred dollars back on gear we we didn't intend to use anymore, the basement remodel is plugging along and getting clean-up and cleaned-out...So far we have reduced our ski collection by 3 and our ski boots by 1 (I am not saying how many I still have...at least they are cheaper than jeeps!). And it was easy to believe the the positive thoughts that the changes I made to the distributor will work perfectly as opposed to trying it and finding out it made to no difference....
     
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  16. Nov 6, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Ok, ended up cleaning the distributor and points up - everything under the cap seemed a bit dirty and oily. Set the point gap to .016 (used) as best as I could - I much prefer to do that via an external adjustment screw with dwell meter. Things do seem to be running a bit smoother... it really seems to like/need to warm up quite a bit before it settles in. I put the vac gauge on the manifold and checked timing and idle mix adjustment. That puts initial timing 11-12 BTDC (about the same as my ear and rpm suggest). Unlike the 225v6, its kind of a narrow timing range that is pretty obvious that its running best....the 225 seems to like a huge range of initial timing, especially up to 16 (although I only run it at 9). Tweaked the idle mix screws a touch richer (1/4 turn)....all this provides a steady vac of 14.5 , which while low for most of you, is about right for here at 5280'. Still cannot get a decent reading off the negative side of the coil for dwell - so not sure how well the points are truly adjusted....Something about the interference with generator or whatever else seems to affect my cheapo meter...Going to try driving it a bit as is (without the vac can)...and I need to work on the oil filter adapter - its definitely leaking a bit too much....Then maybe order a new replacement distributor to run without points....
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  17. Nov 9, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Ok...may have a solution worked out...Pertronix in a later style delco distributor...it fits but have to remove cap and rotor to install/remove....although it's a new unit I think I need to shim the gear as the timing jumps around a bit too much.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Nov 10, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Think it's ready to use around town for a bit of errand running....its all legal now...
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  19. Nov 10, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Good job at being patient and good job in general!
     
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  20. Nov 10, 2019
    baldjosh

    baldjosh Member 2020 Sponsor

    pacific north west
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    That's a fine looking rear end...love the color...and lack of rust!!!
     

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