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Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. May 6, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    When you say wheel bearings, are you referring to the bearings that go on and support the rear axle shaft (and not the front wheel bearings that go on the spindle)? I just want to make sure I am not confused to terminology. thanks
     
  2. May 6, 2019
    mike starck

    mike starck Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    salem,oregon
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    A little late to the party but I have changed many rear axle bearings so I will offer what I know.BTW is your axle a tapered or flanged axle? either way the bearing or axle w/bearing or cup should come out with a few pulls of a slide hammer.They are not pressed in.It will make a difference which style axle you have as the bearings are totally different style. mike
     
  3. May 6, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    Right, the bearings that support the axle shaft. Pretty sure they are still considered wheel bearings in a semi-float design as far as I know. I used my OTC slide hammer with the 2-jaw puller attachment, the bearing cups popped right out.
     
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  4. May 6, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    flanged...when I pulled the axles for the locker install, the bearings and outer seals obviously were on the axle shafts, but the races were still inside the axle housing tubes and I was just wondering how hard it they were to get out. Sounds like it should be pretty doable with slide hammer and small jaw attachment...so if the races are not pressed in, how are they installed. Oh, I think the bearing races are actually attached to the bearing itself (bonded?) and will be installed as a complete unit when the axle shaft is slid back in place?
     
  5. May 6, 2019
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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    Yes, they install as a unit.
    Oz

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
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  6. May 7, 2019
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    I'm seeing a little confusion here. There are different type bearings, depending on whether the axle is flanged or tapered. Tapered axles have a taper roller bearing with a separate race that fits into the axle housing. Flanged axles have a unit (ball?) bearing that is a 1-piece affair.
    Either type bearing is typically removed using a press, with a 2-piece tapered plate that bolts around behind the bearing.
    The bearings are also installed on a press, usually with a long pipe-like sleeve to push on the bearing inner race, then the lock collar is pressed in place. Just remember to install the seal first!
    -Donny
     
  7. May 7, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    My jeep axle is a flanged axle with a 'unit' bearing - which I basically understand to mean the race is bonded to the bearing (like a Timken set 10). I have no easy way to remove the old bearing and lock ring off the axle shaft and no way to press the new ones on - but my local NAPA can do it in their machine shop. What I wanted to verify, was how to get the old races out of the axle tube. Although the bearing and race install as a single 'unit', they don't come out together. I can get the Timken set 10 bearings from most any supplier, but trying to verify individually the correct seals (part number) for both the inner and outer seals from suppliers is not as easy - was hoping I could get them all (unit bearing and both seals) as a set. I found this crown kit available from most all suppliers, but haven't verified if they are repackaged Timken bearings:
    Crown Automotive J8124779 Wheel Bearing Kit for 71-75 Jeep CJ with Dana 44 Rear Axle
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  8. May 7, 2019
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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    It can be confusing, I was not sure that I had the correct replacement bearing at first because the original was the 1 piece unit...the replacement was a 2 piece unit but the race is affixed to the bearing. I'm pretty sure that whenever the axle shaft would be pulled out in the future the race would separate and likely stay in the end of the axle tube.

    I used Spicer for the replacements.
    [​IMG]


    I got mine off of an Amazon seller but here is a link to a supplier that has a description of them. Northern Drivetrain, LLC: Spicer 565903

    And yes, the race should come out fairly easy with the use of a slide hammer.
     
  9. May 14, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

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    So, the choice for axle shaft bearings and seals is down to two:
    1) Crown kit: Crown Automotive J8124779
    2) Spicer kit: Northern Drivetrain, LLC

    The Crown kit comes with the correct retaining plate but uncertain what bearings it comes with. The Spicer kit comes with the wrong retainer plate (see the 4 holes - and this was confirmed by the retailer), but the retailer confirmed it comes with Timken bearings. Its actually cheaper to buy Timken bearings and seals in this kit and just not use the retaining plate than it is to buy the pieces individually. Is there any reason I would need a new retaining plate....or maybe i should ask, what would I look for on my current retaining plate that would indicate a need to replace?
     
  10. May 15, 2019
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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  11. May 15, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

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    I posted the question of what brand of bearing Crown includes in their kit on Summit Racing...Crown responded with Timken...so that is great.
    Crown Automotive J8124779
    Although its a bit more expensive, I think I will order the Crown kit and that way I have the correct retaining plates as well. The extra cost is offset by not having to pay for shipping from either Summit or 4wheel parts.
     
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  12. May 21, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

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    Starting to make some progress on the new axle unit bearings and seals. Used a slide hammer with little attachment on the end that would go through the center hole of the race and inner seal, then open it up behind them and pull them out with the hammer mechanism. Worked perfect...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I'll get some pictures of the races...the driver side seemed to have a bit of wear, thus one of the reasons to change them out. Plus the leaky seals... and then just good peace of mind knowing that this should take care of the rear axle for a long time. I would guess that with no full float set-up on my flanged axle, it is kind of the most critically important piece of the jeep in terms of keeping the jeep rolling (even when being towed out of a bad spot)...basically, you can't even tow the stupid thing if something in the rear axle disintegrates and blows up - it would be more like dragging a really heavy and non-functional sled.

    So my question now is...Is there a specific depth I should drive in the new inner seal? I have to look into the axle tube - maybe there is a step or ridge that it seats against?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    73 cj5 likes this.
  13. May 21, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Here are the races that came out of the axle tube - the one on the right shows what I think is some unusual wear. You can kind of see how dull and slightly grainy the surface appears as compared to the shiny smooth one on the left. You can't feel any difference, but you can certainly see it. It only goes about 2/3 the way around the race....not sure how much of an issue that would become, but happy to replace them.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. May 22, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    It might be good to have the axle on the side with uneven wear checked for run-out, make sure it isn't bent.
     
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  15. May 22, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    On second thought, do you remember what orientation the unusual wear was on the race in the axle housing? Related to your previous question about retainer plates and race depth: The race is installed against a seat in the axle housing, bearing preload/end-play is pre-set on a flanged axle by the depth of the bore and the retainer plate (no shims like a tapered 44). Over time, use and possible PO abuse, the retainer plates can become "dished". A loose bearing is most likely the cause of the wear you are seeing. Theoretically, a bent axle would cause strange wear all the way around the race.

    Bottom line, I would make sure your axles/bearings are seated correctly on install and that your retainer plates are nice and flat.
     
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  16. May 22, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

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    The wear is on the bottom half of the race...you thinking this wear is possibly due to side-to-side movement of the bearing in the race (something not quite right with the preload). Maybe the retaining plate was allowing the bottom of the bearing to walk in and out (side to side) just a bit? Its hard to check how flat the old retaining plates are as they are still trapped on the axle until the old bearing get pressed off...I have replacement retaining plates....should check those and probably use them if they are good. Just to ask, would painting the retaining plates be a good or bad idea?
     
  17. May 22, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I think if you have all new stuff and put it together carefully, you should be fine. No telling what may have been done there previously...incorrect install, used bearing or race, etc. I painted my retaining plates just because I dislike something used or prone to rust when I just re-did everything new, but I kept the paint to two lighter coats.
     
  18. May 24, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    I went with new retaining plates and got the local NAPA machine shop to remove the old bearing and press on the new ones - haven't really had much chance to see if it is all good, but the old timer at the machine shop immediately asked if they were jeep axle shafts...gave me some confidence they knew what they were doing.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. May 24, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I am not sure how much room you might have to move the outer seal away from the bearing, but the instructions in the Timken bearing set say to pack the outer seal full of grease...if you haven't done this already.
     
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  20. May 24, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Is there any specific depth into the axle tube that I should drive the inner seal? I know roughly were the previous ones were based on the rubbing mark on the axle shaft.

    edit - ok, there are two different 'steps' in the axle tube. The seal is driven up against the deeper step, and then the bearing race goes up against the outer step (I think).
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019

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