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Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Apr 5, 2019
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Last ones I used a buddy got from Yukon as part of his build kit. That was years ago so I'm not sure any longer.
     
  2. Apr 5, 2019
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    If you are looking to spend money on setup bearings, why not apply that to new bearings? Use the bearings you remove from your case and pinion for setup bearings. That's what I did. With a die grinder and small stone you can enlarge the bearing id's so they will slide on.
     
    Bowbender likes this.
  3. Apr 5, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I made them on my lathe. I bought new ones and bored them out like .001or .003 or something. Windyhill has my set. I also bought an inch/LB beam style torque wrench from an online bicycle shop.
     
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  4. Apr 5, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Was originally thinking I might try this...but worried I may have damaged them too much when removing them...I didn't damage the the inner diameter surface of the bearing, but I did a bit of damage to the outer cage etc - how much of an issue will that be if I try to use the as set-up bearing when they go into the races etc?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  5. Apr 5, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    Generally not recommended to use used bearings for set-up as they have worn over time and will not have the same tolerances as new. This is also why bearing preload specs are different for used bearings as opposed to new.
     
  6. Apr 6, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Trying to measure the various shim thicknesses. I am measuring each shim individually and not the entire pack. Question - do the various spacer shims come in 'standard' sizes - such as .001" and .005" and .010" or are they a bit more random. My measurements are showing some of the shims to be .003" and .012" etc. Just wasn't expecting those breaks. FWIW - the richmond kit comes with fewer but thicker shims, whereas the sets I am removing have lots of very thin (.005") shims stacked up - not sure why that was done as it seems one shim at .020" is better than stacking 4 of .005".
     
  7. Apr 6, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Measuring the old shims and the new shims - here is what I am getting for the pinon portion:
    Inner pinon shims (pinon depth) - these go under the race and would like to do it only once:
    Old (6 shims): .010+.003+.003+.003+.003+.003 = .025"
    New (2 shims): .014+.012 = .026"

    Pinon pre-load - this is not as critical as these can be changed fairly easily, but a starting point:
    Old (8 shims): .033+.010+.010+.005+(4 x .003) = .070"
    New (5 shims)" .018+.018+.012+.012+.012 = .072"

    And just because I was interested to see, I measured the inner pinon bearing and race thickness (all identical Timken 31594):
    Old bearing: 1.135" (but this one was damaged a bit when removing)
    New bearing: 1.130"
    Old race: .935"
    New race: .935"
    The identical race measurements give me some confidence that I can use the same pinon depth spacers under the race and call it good.
     
  8. Apr 7, 2019
    Renegade ll

    Renegade ll Member

    Thayne Wyoming
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    James I have a brand new ring gear and pinion gear for the rear 44. Can you use it. 4:88 gears.
     
  9. Apr 7, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Tim has been working on a similar 30-spline D44 and he gave me the heads up that there might be some issue with the new carrier bearing shims (from Richmond gear) fitting properly on the case. Thanks to his heads up, I found this issue:

    The new shims do not sit all the way down on to the case (this is the oem trac lok case):
    [​IMG]

    And since for me its more important that it fits on the new eaton locker case - better but not perfect:
    [​IMG]

    I went and and compared the new shims to the old shims - inner diameter is the same. And the old shims fit pretty nicely at first glance:
    [​IMG]

    Upon closer look, the old shims have a crease or fold in them that allows for them to conform to the radius curve. I don't know if that is original or if someone just forced flat shims with too small an ID down over that radius curve and they bent to fit? You can see the crease better in the upper one...need to find shims with slightly larger ID. I think I will start with contacting Richmond gear and see what they say, and I can also contact JEGS which is where I bought the Richmond kit from.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Apr 7, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    Also keep in mind your previous observation, that the replacement shims are thicker and fewer than the originals. Thick shims aren't going to conform as easily or the same as a stack of thin shims.

    The bearings and shims really need to sit flat against the carrier. Measuring with my calipers, the shims need a full 2" ID to clear the radius. Let me know if you find some that measure out. I am searching for some too, but will clamp them in a jig and machine them out if I have to.
     
  11. Apr 7, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Tim - I will let you know if I find out anything helpful with regard to new shims.

    I did get the ring gear on to the new Eaton case for some test fitting...Still need to finalize these with red loc-tite.
    [​IMG]

    Also located and drilled the 1/2" hole in the top passenger side of the case where the electrical wiring will go.
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Apr 10, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Been at jury duty for the last couple days...probably 3 more to go. Been trying to keep my regular job taken care of at night. But making a bit of progress:

    Put the new replacement pinon depth shims in that go under the inner pinon bearing - as shown in and above post, I went with .025-.026" shim spacers which is as close to the previous .025" set of shims as I could get:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Then drove in the bearing cup...I put the cup in the freezer, but never seems to help much.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I the got the lower pinon bearing on the pinon gear shaft...I put the pinon gear shaft in the freezer and heated the bearing up in our mini toaster oven...dropped right on!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  13. Apr 10, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Now its time to put the pinon gear in and test for rotational torque and the appropriate amount of pre-load spacers:
    For the first attempt, I am trying to replicate the .070" pack that was in there previously with a .072" pack (closest I could get with what was included)
    [​IMG]

    Then had to drive in the upper pinon bearing cup, slide the pinon gear up and through from the inside of the case and put the upper pinon bearing and yoke on. I heated both the bearing and the yoke so they would slide on just a bit easier.
    [​IMG]

    Then torque the pinon nut to 100ft-lbs without seals or oil slinger etc just to check rotational torque. Put the yoke wrench to use again:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Apr 11, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    When I set mine up, I had to do this several times to get the pattern right. I took like .002 off the outside of the cone and similar off the inside of the cup of the bearing set. Those pinch style nuts are also only to be used ones and discarded. I used the one I took off to snug it up.
     
  15. Apr 11, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    I'm with Chris, I use the old yoke nut for set-up, then the new one for final assembly. No harm no foul though, you'll be fine with that lock nut as a fair bit of torque goes on there...plus, good to put a bit of sealant on the splines, washer and nut just to be sure no leakage.

    Also, when installing cups or bearings, good to put a little gear lube on for ease of install. I tried the Ratech carrier shims this am, they are very close for clearing the radius on the carrier. Pretty sure they will work for you, so I will send a set with the set-up bearings. I started on my jig to machine them out, so I may mill a hair off the shims just to be sure the bearing can seat fully.

    Nice work and write-up James. (y)
     
  16. Apr 11, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I wanted to use the old nut but did not like some of the thread on it and didn't want to screw up the threads on the pinon with it. I can get another nut more easily than pinon gear...thanks for the help
     
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  17. Apr 11, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Ok - got my first hiccup...measured the rotation torque of the pinon, and its coming out very low...less the 5in-lbs. When checking the specs in the FSM, it needs to be between 10-25in-lbs. But...I only torqued the pinon nut to 100ft-lbs, not the recommended 200ft-lbs in the FSM. I would assume that will help increase preload...so that is first thing to do tonight...tighten up the pinon nut to spec and recheck the rotational torque. If its still too low, I will need to remove a bit of the shim pack on the pinon shaft shoulder.
     
  18. Apr 11, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Woo-hoo! I reduced the shim pack from .072" to .068" (the original was .070") and now the the rotational torque is 15-17in-lbs. I'll take it!
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Apr 13, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    ok - while waiting to get the the set-up bearings and work on the case install, a few other items i can tend to:
    1) the unit bearings and seals on the axle shafts....What is the best way to replace the seals inside the axle tube? It seems like I have to pull the bearing race out with a slide hammer and attachment, then pull the seal. When driving in the new seal, does it have a stop, or just drive it in a good ways past the bearing race seat? I am also guessing I will have to take the axles shaft to a shop to pay for them to pull the old bearings off and press the new one on...

    2) brakes...I am going to keep the oem style 10" brakes with self-adjusters....new shoes and as much of the hardware as I can find.
     
  20. Apr 14, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    While waiting to get the set-up bearings to finish the locker install, I took care of the rear brakes. They are the oem 10" self adjusting brakes - and the self-adjusters were completely frozen so I don't think they were functioning at all. When disassembling, I found the shoe clip for the self-adjuster had a broken tab - probably not critical, but decided to fix it anyway:
    the two clips - the one on the right is missing a tab in the center:
    [​IMG]

    repaired - of course I did get it painted as well:
    [​IMG]

    Here are the self-adjusting levers (as called by the FSM - #11 in the exploded view). It says very specifically on p311 in the FSM that the one that has the 'R' on it goes on the primary shoe for the driver rear, and the one with the 'L' on it goes on the primary shoe for the passenger rear (something about that bothers my slight OCD...but that is also how they were when I took them off):
    [​IMG]

    And the finished product - ready to bolt on when the locker is good to go. If anyone sees anything wrong let me know (the driver is on the left and the passenger is on the right - both are rear brakes):
    [​IMG]
     
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