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Factory V6 Frame Mounts. Please Guide Me.

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by blalp!, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. Aug 29, 2019
    blalp!

    blalp! New Member

    Concord, NH
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    3
    Hi Folks,

    I haven’t been able to find the info I’m looking for regarding factory V6 mount placement in my ‘64 4cyl CJ5 frame. I have an engine, mounts, radiator and grille from a 69 Commando. Due to space reasons with winter coming, and the fact that my tub is beyond gone with nothing to reference; I was wondering where I should place/weld my mounts in an effort to get the engine in the frame sooner than later. Currently I plan to run the T14 out of the Commando, but when money allows in the future, perhaps one day adapt my NP435. Should I use the measurements from the Commando frame? Will that clear the CJ firewall once the tub is replaced? Thank you in advance for your help. -blalp!
     
  2. Aug 29, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    7,801
    I believe you can only use one of the Commando mounts, the larger of the two.
    One of them is smaller; with that being said, I suppose you could fabricate and make it work.
    Ideally, they should be from a CJ frame.
    Maybe others wiser than me will comment....
     
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  3. Aug 29, 2019
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,660
    I agree with Jim... find the regular Dauntless CJ-5 mounts if you can.
    The Up/Down and R/L engine positions are predetermined if you install the CJ-5 Dauntless frame brackets.

    The Dauntless should be located exactly 3/4" right of F-134 engine CL.
    And that means the Dauntless CL is exactly 3/4" right of the frame CL.
    With TC crossmember in place: The T14 and the Jeep bellhousing adapters will designate the fore/aft position of the engine.
    That will certainly work for your application for now as far as firewall clearance is concerned.
    But the engine fore/ aft and/or the TC fore/aft will need an adjustment IF and WHEN you change to a different length of transmission or bellhousing adapters.
     
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  4. Aug 29, 2019
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member Sponsor

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    4,467
    If your even thinking about changing the Tranny and doing the whole swap, just start with aftermarket mounts. I've had good luck with THESE from Novak when I don't use the stock style (they are what is in the Red 51 in my Icon).

    I would also recommend doing the tranny and engine at the same time. This allows you to 'fit' them optimally for drive lines, radiator, floor pans and all the items you need to think about in this type of swap. My '62 build is a 4 cyl body on a V6 Frame - along with lots of other changes as well.

    You can also get a frame diagram to show where they mount from factory - I'm not where I can get to mine to post right now.
     
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  5. Aug 29, 2019
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe pusher

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    587
    Not exacting but my v6 era frame with factory mounts measures right at 14" from the notch on the mount to inside of crossmember. Ymmv, consider it rough reference only.
    IMG_20190829_194033808~2.jpg IMG_20190829_194047330~2.jpg
     
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  6. Aug 29, 2019
    blalp!

    blalp! New Member

    Concord, NH
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    3
    All of the above is good info that has prompted a few more questions. With the above Novak and factory mounts, is the driver side exhaust forward or rear facing? Also, with Ross steering, is the drag link the same between 4cyl and 6cyl? I ask as the drag link on the C101, bends towards the centerline more to clear the left side forward facing exhaust pipe. Thank you.
     
  7. Aug 29, 2019
    blalp!

    blalp! New Member

    Concord, NH
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    3
    Rich, any chance your engine mounts are 4.5” and 6.25” from center of bolt hole to inside of frame? That’s roughly what mine are. The front 3.5ft of frame rail seems to be identical between the CJ and Commando frames. (This obviously assumes I continue on the T14 transmission path.) Thank you.
     
  8. Aug 29, 2019
    Thean

    Thean Member

    HSB Idaho
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Messages:
    89
    Draglink are different. The dauntless runs a forward facing exhaust manifold on the driver side to clear the Ross box assembly.
    You might go to a smaller body shop and see if they have frame data for a 1968/69/70 CJ5 with dauntless. It should give you all the data points in the front frame area including the frame horns... if it’s available. Google image will probably be your next best bet if someone here doesn’t have it. I have a factory frame with clip off, drivetrain out and can also produce measurements if needed.
     
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  9. Aug 30, 2019
    CJ Joe

    CJ Joe Truckhaven Tough!

    Vista, CA
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2002
    Messages:
    342
    27-3/4" from front of frame horn to front of motor bracket.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Aug 30, 2019
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member Sponsor

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    4,467
    The Novak mounts have always been with either the Novak Headers or the AA ones. I would have to do some looking, or you can contact Novak as they keep most of that available and are usually real helpful. I've known them and been using them since the late 70s.
     
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  11. Sep 1, 2019
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe pusher

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    587
    IMG_20190901_163335069~2.jpg IMG_20190901_163350258~2.jpg
    Short side is drivers.
     
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  12. Sep 2, 2019
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    I live South of...
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,026
    Welcome from Michigan. I changed a 66 V 6 frame to a 64 F 134 frame for my 64 CJ 5. I used the V 6 Ross steering box and linkage. I used the F 134 Grill and radiator, the V 6 is different. I used a T 90 trans from an F 134, and a D18 transfer case from the V 6. I used the stock rear cross member bolted into the F 134 holes already in the frame, and the F 134 trans, transfer case mount. The transfer case mount is different for the V 6, but it is the same cross member as the F 134, and is back farther in the frame, the frame I used had the holes for both ways already in the frame flanges. I had to remove the battery box from my F 134 frame and weld it into the V 6 frame. The V 6 battery box mounts to the fire wall on the cowl. I hope this helps you, I have never seen a T 14 trans, so that changes everything I think. My Friend Joe still has the 66 V6 Grill complete with everything still in it, just like I took it off. Lights, turn signals, and radiator, all wiring still complete, ready to bolt on. Good Luck with your build, I hope this will help you. PM me if you have any questions that I may be able to answer for you.
     
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