1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Dj-5c Restoration - 3s + 1w

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Jeff Bromberger, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Jun 13, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    Right, the main issue for Jeep wheels is the large center hole for the hub. Back in the day, the wheel companies would make Jeep wheels for sand tires from F100 wheels by cutting out the center.

    Both Ford and Dodge IIRC used the 5 on 5.5" pattern for pickups. If you want narrow wheels, Suzuki Samurai wheels fit as I recall, and maybe other Zuks/Geos too. You must have a local Jeep/4x4 forum - try posting there with a WTB ad.
     
  2. Jul 10, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    Progress is as progress does.

    Is it fair to say that, when writing his "Divine Comedy," Dante was under deadline and left some things out? In particular, there's a circle of Hell that was neglected - the pit reserved for the guy who says "one or two ugga-duggas!" when you need a real torque value.

    Now that everything is more or less built, I need to mate the engine to the transmission. And that includes popping in the little "joy donut" - the torque converter. I take the new/rebuilt one out of the box and line it up. First bolt goes in most of the way and then I have to hit the breaker bar to move the engine/flexplate 90 degrees for the next bolt. And... The hole won't line up. Did you know that, just like the flex plate, a torque converter has an asymmetrical mount? Can't say I know why, since this thing is so far out of the engine, it had better not rely on engine balance to keep it spinning evenly. But, whatevah, I have no choice but to bring the engine back around and unbolt the first connector and try to figure out the right alignment. 4 possible options, and success comes on 3rd try. Grrr.

    The TSM supersedes Ugga-Dugga dude and says that those bolts between the flexplate and the TC are supposed to get 25-35 foot pounds of torque. I like that - I can set my wrench to that approximate value. Jeff's luck pops up here, and before I even get close, two of the 5/16x24 bolts just strip out from the TC mounting pads. Not good.

    I unbolt the damn thing (again) and contact the remanufacturer. After a little bit of "you have to go through the vendor" dancing, I am eligible for a replacement. This must have been defective or something.

    Next day, I drive to the warehouse, swap out the TC and head home. Fingers are crossed here. Guess what? We're back to the game of figuring out how to get all four bolts through the flexplate and into the converter! This time, it's success on the second try. Woo hoo!

    Bolts go in, torque wrench applied, we're done. Now comes the time to fill the TC. As I learned from an old episode of Monster Garage (or some similar show), you need to fill the converter with ATF before you even dream of starting it up, else you will burn the unit to pieces. I also learned that, when a transmission is in Park, the pump may not send oil around the entire circuit, so Neutral is a better place to be. I manage to get about 1.5 quarts into the unit and only 0.5 quarts on the garage floor. Here's a pro tip for you - keep lots of cat litter around when dealing with tricky oil situations!

    Back to the main bolt, so that I align the slots in the TC with the transmission pump gear. Cross fingers, say a prayer to Mr. Ugga Dugga, and the transmission and motor now are mated. I still have to put in the starter and access plate, but for now we're all happy. Picture will follow, but this new monster slab o'iron is patiently waiting on a movers' dolly. Waiting for a day when the temperature gets back down to something nice and relaxing - maybe in the 80's - and I can drop it in the Jeep.
     
    ojgrsoi likes this.
  3. Jul 16, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    Ladies and Gentlemen. Boys and Girls. We have contact. With the ground, that is.

    Thanks to Tim's advice and guidance, I managed to track down a local guy selling wheels for a Suzuki Samurai. Lo and behold, they weren't Suzuki wheels, but originally Jeep classic "wagon wheels". They are all stamped 15x5.5 and dated in either 86, 87 or 88.

    Brought them to another local establishment and now they're powder coated plain black. Can't go wrong with that for now.

    Found a deep discount place selling "China Bomb" tires. Picked up 205/70R15 for very little money. The people who review them say that they are reasonable as long as you stay under 70 and avoid deep water/mud. Sounds good to me, after all this is a mail jeep.

    Here's some pictures:
    Tire_On_Wheel.jpg

    You have to pardon the lens flare on that shot. I had by back against the garage wall and my butt on the floor. Oh, yeah, that's the Texas 100+ degree sun this week, too! Everything looks a lot less "black" than it is. The three bolts in the front hub are all that yellow/green Cat 8 color and the brake drum is gun metal colored.

    Front_End_Tires.jpg

    And we are on the ground, finally, on both sides in the front. There's one sad little mistake I'll have to eventually correct (a snapped bolt, where the rescue drillbit snapped off as well, holding on an axle snubber), but otherwise, we're all done.

    Barring any disasters, tomorrow is the day I hang the rebuilt fuel tank and then mount the rear wheels. This will be the first time since I got the Jeep (over a year ago) where all of the weight is borne by the wheels and not jack stands.

    Next step (after that): bring out the rebuilt motor/transmission and mount it up.

    The anxiety is getting to me.
     
  4. Jul 16, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    genewilderyoungfrankenstein.jpg

    MY JEEP! IT ROLLS!

    Four wheels on the ground, tires holding air, no jack stands. With a slight nudge, it moves back and forth without you breaking a sweat. First time since I've owned it, and probably first time since 2001 (the last time it was registered to anybody). I had to put chocks in to keep it from wanting to follow the pitch of the garage floor.

    FWIW: I also mounted the fuel tank, too. Lines to follow.

    Now all that's left in the "big stuff" department is getting the engine/transmission hauled over and then installed. Wiring and some other minor items to follow afterwards. Then we try to get it safety inspected and registered.
     
    Dphillip, Snoops, timgr and 2 others like this.
  5. Jul 16, 2020
    baldjosh

    baldjosh Member

    pacific north west
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    451
  6. Jul 16, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    Sedagive?
     
    Dphillip likes this.
  7. Jul 16, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    No. More like a roll in the hay. Roll, roll, roll!
     
  8. Jul 18, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    No pictures today, but... THE ENGINE IS IN PLACE.

    I was blessed that my wife helped me - it is impossible to use an engine hoist when you have to use both hands to hold the engine over the mount points. I am sure that I'll owe her for this morning, but I can handle that. It was a robust 97 degrees as the block hit the frame mount points.

    Pictures to follow!
     
    Fireball likes this.
  9. Jul 19, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    OK, here are the promised pictures. First, front view:
    Dropping_Engine_Front.jpg

    Using a pair of purple straps to lower it into place on the frame. I can see that there's some spots I'll need to touch up the engine paint on, but that's minor. Now, for the left (passenger) side:

    Installed_Left_Side.jpg

    Pardon the clutter of old wires. Half of those need to be chased down and removed. Remember that we initially had the Motorola alternator, which was 4 wires plus a voltage regulator. We've moved to the Delco 12SI, so I now have 3 wires. I've also added a plastic shield over a "battery direct" junction block. I dropped stuff off the edge of the hood onto it twice, and before I attach the battery, it's best to put something in place to cover my posterior.

    Finally, the right (driver) side of the engine:

    Installed_Right_Side.jpg

    Now you can see the new HEI with silicone wires, the new alternator and fuel pump. For those with quick eyes, you'll see the circular hole in the transmission shield where the starter gets bolted in (just left of the oil filter). Memory told me that yanking the engine with the starter attached was a nightmare, so now I figured I'd install it after we're bolted down.

    Still hundreds of little things to do, and each time I think of one, another dozen appear out of nowhere. But for the first time in over a year, the progress is enough that anybody can see that we're going forward.
     
    ojgrsoi and Fireball like this.
  10. Jul 24, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    Minor update: it's the little things that get you when you weren't paying attention

    We all remember that, towards the beginning of the project, I swapped out my 1974 motor and the (correct for the year) B/W M-11 transmission. I replaced it with a 1975 motor (well, that's the same) and the Chrysler A727 transmission. And everybody seems to think that it's a nice upgrade. Well, I finally hit the first snag:

    Trans_Crossmember.jpg

    Yup. The DJ has a different crossmember for the newer transmission. The 727 is about 1.5 inches too long to fit in the existing holes, and the screw holes in the trans support fall off the back of the crossmember.

    Time for a quick metal plate that'll bolt to the crossmember and make new holes for the trans mount.
     
    Fireball and ojgrsoi like this.
  11. Jul 25, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    You can't just slide the cross-member rearward in the frame?
     
  12. Jul 25, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    Part of me is afraid to try this. Not the sliding, mind you. The unbolting...

    I've managed to split 3 bolts trying to get them out of the frame, and I have only been successful in getting two of the casualties out. It's easier to make a splice plate (easier on my soul, that is) than to risk cracking these bolts. What can I say - the geniuses who specified the hardware didn't use Grade 5 or Grade 8 parts except for the bolts holding the springs on.

    Once I get this Jeep moving under its own power, I need a friend with a lift, a welder, and experience in doing "weld oversized nut to snapped bolt so that it can be extracted" for the underside of the frame...
     
  13. Jul 25, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    Cracking? You mean breaking? Is it an open C-channel frame or boxed? Pic?
     
  14. Jul 25, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    By the time 1974 rolled around, all postal jeeps had boxed in frames. You can see that it looks like a pair of C channels - one inside of the other. But there is no single place to get to the inside. Pictures will follow once I get back to the vehicle in question...
     
  15. Jul 27, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    OK, here's the scoop.

    I asked on the Facebook Postal Jeep group and compiled all of the information together with what I've seen/experienced. It seems that we're all in the same condition, without regard to year. The front of the frame is boxed in - a C channel in a C channel. This continues for just past half of the length. At the point where the Emergency Brake cable comes through the floor, the inner section is cut on an angle, and by the time you're just behind the seat (at the step up for the back compartment), you have plain exposed C channel (with the C's facing the center line of the Jeep.

    The bolt I snapped just happens to be up front, right hand side. It's the rear bolt for the rubber axle snub. To get in there, I have to pull the wheel and the shock, too. If I need a super long tool, then it's time to drop the axle and spring. Yuck.
     
  16. Sep 2, 2020
    Rustman

    Rustman Member

    Charles Town, WV
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Messages:
    87
    Jeff,

    I've been out of touch for a while. Just caught up on all the tribulations over the summer. So where are we now? Did you get that adapter plate fabricated and bolted up there?

    Matt
     
  17. Oct 4, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    And it seems to have been a million years for me, too.

    The 100+ degree days are long gone from Dallas, and as such, the work has jumped forward by leaps and bounds.

    The transmission has a plate, and it's mounted. I'm not so thrilled, truth be told, as it looks to me as if the drive shaft isn't in a straight line with the differential. I realize that there's always a vertical aspect of this, but this is a pure horizontal issue. Together with that, I cannot find a proper gear for the speedometer. Seems that this is either a custom thing or the people who know better won't share the information. I'll have to go to a classic car swap meet (for MOPAR) and talk to a transmission expert. For now, I have a rubber cork driven into the cable hole in the speedometer gear holder. There'll be no speedometer (or odometer) for now. On a positive note, I had a friend 3D print me up a pair of bushings that hold the shift rod linkages into the brackets. The brackets are no longer round due to mild wallowing, and the rods are slightly odd sized, too. But with the bushings, we're OK. Once I get it running, I have to figure out how to adjust where the full-throttle kickdown comes into play.

    The fuel tank is up, as well as the new fuel line and the vapor line to the charcoal canister. The fuel sender unit has a "return" line port, but it isn't being used. The fuel filter doesn't have the third leg, the carb doesn't have that extra port, so I call it a wash and there's a cap just in case I feel like wasting time and plumbing in a fuel return when it wasn't factory spec.

    The engine is mounted and almost all of the wiring is done. I just have to solder 3 or 4 crimp connectors for security and then run a wire harness alongside the engine block to protect these wires. This is the wire bundle for the HEI, the Delco 12SI alternator and the coolant temperature probe. The vacuum lines are done, as are the heater lines.

    The front grille is on. Figuring out how the spring/washer system worked was a waste of time. I jury-rigged it and I hope it is close enough. I've got radiator hoses, finally, after a long struggle to deal with different sizes and bends so sharp the hose could kink. Got new hoses for the transmission cooler, and I just have to run the hard lines from them to the transmission ports. I also, for kicks, mounted the first fender and the battery tray. Not all of the holes line up, and that should bother me more than it does. The fenders are pieces of, ahem, scrap metal and the moment I can find a replacement pair, these will be recycled into skate keys and other useful parts.

    The "under the dash" stuff is almost done. The heater motor was rebuilt and remounted. The hazard switch is toast, but I have a new toggle for that (to be installed this week). After that, I just have to put the alternator charge "fail" light into a circuit and eventually mount it. The hardest part right now is cosmetic. The jeep has these plastic/lucite wedges that are used for lighting the switch options. There's one for the "hazard" and "washer wiper" switches, and there's one for the heater functions. Well, it looks like the original was done with a P-Touch, with black backgrounds and white text. Not so bad - I can replace this. But the issue is with the heater text. There are four windows cut through the dash (so you can see the backlit labels), and the Previous Genius spray painted over the windows and the text, so I cannot read anything. Every chemical I try to remove the paint removes all the color, so I cannot read what they once said. I know that there's a SPDT on the left for fan speed, then there's three cables that pull out. The right one is the hot/cold adjustment, and I forget whether the left or right controls the windshield or the floor vents. Oh, another Under The Dash issue is the throttle cable. It's new, and while the shield and carb end fit perfectly, the cable is 5 inches too long for the accelerator pedal mounting. The pedal falls to the floor before touching the soldered on nub on the cable. Time to shorten that beast up a bit.

    If I can keep my head and get this done, I might be able to fluid her up this week and try the first test start. That'll be a big point for me. Then, finally, I get it inspected and then registered as a classic rust bucket (with vintage 1974 license plates and enough rust to fill a decent sized bucket). Then I get to enjoy it until I have the $5-10K saved up to get it into a body shop for sand blasting, patching and painting. There are not many places where it's rusted completely through. The worst is where the battery tray is in contact with the firewall. That's held together with a prayer and some anti-gravity spray. Other holes were filled in the factory with plumbers' putty, and as the putty fell out, the holes started to rot. There's one huge non-structural bubble under the driver's seat, on the vertical divider between the floor pan and the rear parcel deck. Since I have zero experience with welding and no welding equipment, this'll wait until I get the body renovated.

    There's still a bunch of mods I will add to make it a better driver. I'm doing Tim's headlight/relay fix and going LED headlamps in the process. I'm replacing the old USPS worn saddle with a pair of seats from a PT Cruiser (they are drop in replacements, no kidding!). Maybe, I'll retrofit one of those tiny cage fans for impromptu air conditioning. If I really want to show myself the love, I can even take the time and figure out how to mount up a radio and/or 8-track unit.
     
  18. Oct 13, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    202
    Ladies, Gentlemen, Others... This one is dedicated to all my friends in the above 12 pages who have encouraged me, cheered me on, empathized with my pain.

    20201013_132354_Running.mp4

    The engine, running for the first time. It's a short video clip, just enough to hear it going and a quick peek at the oil pressure. I have a major water leak up front - either the thermostat housing or the water pump. I am starting from the top down and going to open it up, dry it off, and then hit it with RTV (why do I keep thinking Semtex? Wrong stuff!).

    I had it running for about 2 minutes when I thought it was probably time to stop it before I overheated it.

    Now, I could not start it from the key. Key was on, but I had to use the hand held solenoid switch. This tells me that the NSS that's part of the gear shift mechanism is dead, and this explains the wiring that was hooked up to the FAN switch (Previous Owner must have been using that as the starter feature).

    Nothing else works. No lights, no wipers, no nothing. So once I get the water issue dried up, it is time to go chasing grounds...

    But, at the end of today, the engine block that I tore apart and put back together works.

    FWIW: It took about a minute of cranking (10 seconds at a time) to suck gasoline from the tank through the line, the pump and into the carb. Once there was fuel, it just ran by itself. No coaxing necessary.
     
    ojgrsoi and 45es like this.
  19. Oct 13, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5,622
    Whoohoo! Nice Job! :bananatool:

    Keep at it and you'll get your leaks buttoned up and electrical fixed so you can break in the cam.
     
  20. Oct 13, 2020
    Rustman

    Rustman Member

    Charles Town, WV
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Messages:
    87
    Awesome!!! You must be so happy to have it that far. The rest will follow now.

    Matt
     
New Posts