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Dana 44 19 Spline

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Howard Eisenhauer, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Mar 16, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Was there ever, in any application Jeep and/or otherwise that anyone here is familiar with, ever a Dana 44 19 spline axle that did not use a spacer block to set the axles in place?

    Thanks,

    H.
     
  2. Mar 16, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    There were a few rare applications using original flanged type axles were the spacer block would serve no purpose.
    Those atypical dana axles were far more common in places like Austrailia.
     
  3. Mar 16, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    bugger. :(


    Any idea what they were used on?

    H.
     
  4. Mar 16, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Are you still needing one Howard?
     
  5. Mar 16, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    No, I got one from Nick a while back. I went to install it in my shiny new Eaton 19960-010 E-locker the other night & ran into a few issues- the spacer is made for a 3/4" spider gear cross shaft, the e-locker uses a 2 cm. cross shaft- about .040" bigger.

    OK, I milled the spacer hole out last night & installed it in the locker. The spacer is 1.5" long, in the Dana case (or carrier depending on your religion) the side gears sit 1" apart, which means a 1/4" on each end of the spacer sits inside each side gear keeping it in place for the axles to butt against. In the locker the side gears sit ~1.5: apart which allows the space to spin around the cross shaft like a drunken trapeze artist and slide from side to side like a loose canon on a ship in a hurricane. o_O

    I called Eaton tech support this morning, they had no idea about the spacer & said they offered the 19 spline unit for sale after "having developed it specifically for a foreign customer", who I am now guessing is their bosom buddies Harrop in Oz.

    I have to take some pics & mail them off to Eaton but it's looking like I'm going to be doing some home grown R&D to make this thing work :(

    H.
     
  6. Mar 16, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Ok...I was gearing up to remove mine (if it's still there?) and ship it.
     
  7. Mar 16, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    So let me get this straight.
    You have a Detroit locker and you want to install it into a rear Dana 44 ?
    Your running tapered axle shafts ? Right ?

    I'm sure you already know this but I'll repeat it anyway so no doubt remains.
    So long as you have standard tapered axle and standard wheel bearings then you must use a center block spacer in order to adjust the bearing end float.
    That's the sole function of the center block spacer.

    52799-----------------D41 / D44 (10-19 spline) wheel cone----------------25877
    52800 ----------------D41 / D44 (10-19 spline) wheel cup------------------25821

    Upload some pics of spacer fitment into your Detroit differential if you can.
    Seems likely to me you'll need to fabricate a center block spacer that is @"OAL.
    And shorten the axle shafts 1/4" each ?
    That should work so long as the axle spline enters fully into the side gears.

    Not that it matters at this point but what brakes do you have ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  8. Mar 16, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    It's actually an Eaton E-Locker Ken, not a Detroit.

    I hadn't thought of shortening the axles, I'll keep that in mind. I was considering boring some 1/8" - 1/4" holes in the axle ends & center block & inserting short lengths of drill rod to to keep everything aligned.

    H.
     
  9. Mar 16, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Right.... Eaton Locker..
     
  10. Mar 16, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    Any idea of what those flanged 19 spliners were used on way down under?

    H.
     
  11. Mar 16, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Used on Willys knock down kits during the 1950's like model CJ-3B.
    From my understanding the parts used in a knock down kit were mainly imported from Willys but some of the parts were locally sourced.
     
  12. Mar 18, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    Pics of what I'm dealing with on this (mostly 'cause I took them anyhow & might as well post'm up)-

    Here's the unit-

    [​IMG]

    To remove the cross shaft we need to do some disassembly, the roll pin securing it is driven in from the other end which means it has to be driven out from this end. To get to it we need to remove the magnet/drag ring which is held on by a spiral lock spring.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Next, just so we don't loose them when we flip it over out come the actuator pins-
    [​IMG]

    Flip it over & remove the six allen bolts holding the end on-
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    To pop the end loose put two bolts back in the tapped holes & screw them in-
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Pull the spring & lock ring-
    [​IMG]

    Here's the end of the roll pin, stick a screwdriver in the hole on the other end & tap it out-
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    & out comes the shaft-
    [​IMG]

    TBC-
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  13. Mar 18, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    Part 2-

    Now what I don't have pics of is where I discovered the spacer doesn't fit over the cross shaft- the Dana shaft is 3/4" diameter, the Eaton one is 2 cm. :( Two days later after some quality time spent with the milling machine-

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Looks good but there's another problem, this is the way the spacer is retained in the Dana-
    [​IMG]
    The spacer is 1.5: long, the side gears are 1" apart, 1/4" of each end of the spacer is captured in place by each side gear.

    The Eaton gears are about 1.5" apart allowing the spacer to spin around & slide side to side-
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    So I've got an email into Eaton to see what the answer, if any is.

    H.
     
  14. Mar 18, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    So you need a longer spacer block ?
    Dana 53 tapered uses longer one.
    Could you put powr lok buttons in some how ?
     
  15. Mar 19, 2017
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor Sponsor

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    Maybe just go with a full float kit? I know that isn't a great answer but it eliminates the end play setup for the tapered axles.
     
  16. Mar 19, 2017
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    Thanks for posting pics. Make a longer spacer? Is that an option? Will it ride in the side gears like it does on the regular case? Do the Eaton side gears allow this to occur or are they formed differently? Do you think the spacer need to be hardened?
     
  17. Mar 19, 2017
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Back to the mill and make a longer spacer?

    Aside from the problem you're having, that sure looks like a well designed and well made unit. Hard to imagine breaking one in our JEEPs. And way easier to work on than say, a Power Lock.

    Ed. You beat me to it Chris. I'm a slow typer.
     
  18. Mar 19, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    Can't use a longer spacer without shortening the axles per Ken's post above.

    Right now I'm thing that with the axles in place the spinning can't happen, for the side to side I'm thinking tube spacers slipped over the shaft to keep the axle spacer centered but we'll see what Eaton has to say.

    As for the unit it looks well made but some of the machining has me scratching my head, one of the side gears (magnet end) appears to have been faced off 'crooked"-

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Probably doesn't hurt anything as the sidegear only bears against the case/carrier in the center of the gear instead of the back face like the Dana gears do. (not sure I like that). The ring gear end one was finished to a very nice surface.

    The case likewise seems to have been milled from the casting a bit off center, the section the end cap fits into is thinner on one side than the other , look carefully & you can see where it wasn't milled because it's thinner-

    [​IMG]



    H.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  19. Mar 19, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

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    Interesting...........Maybe just the casting itself , although the register for the ring gear is intact but much smaller as compared to the other side and obviously the bolts do the work to hold it on ...........might point that out to QC at Eaton.
     
  20. Mar 19, 2017
    ETZFAM

    ETZFAM FLATIES & ROUND FENDERS, SOME EVEN RUN

    WENATCHEE, WA
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    As I remember, when I put a Detroit locker in my Dana 44 tapered axle, I put in a full floater kit and got rid of the spacer?
     

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