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dana 30 vs 44

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by sammy, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. Feb 25, 2011
    sammy

    sammy Coca-Cola?

    Albuquerque, NM
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    I've searched, I've researched, I've checked, I've asked...
    Same Jeep...SBC/32's (for now, 34's later)
    Am I better off building a 44 front end? I have an EB 44 that has 5 on 5.5 that I could use, or should I find a NT30? I'd have to regear either, but I have 5.38's for the EB front end which is what I'm sticking to.
    I know I can get chromoly axle shafts for the NT30, but what would I do for axle shafts for the 44, assuming that I'm keeping it at the 53" or there about track width.
    The more appealing part of the NT30 is bolt in and front discs. The 10" drums are scary with bigger tires and more HP. Am I going to be disappointed with a 30?
    Thanks
     
  2. Feb 25, 2011
    windyhill

    windyhill Sponsor

    PA
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    Sammy have you broken a dana 25 yet? Since you have the 44 maybe that's the way to go, but the dana 30 with heavy duty axles should hold up just fine. on the other hand it's not like you don't know how to fab. stuff so go for it on the 44.

    There did that help?chainsawguy
     
  3. Feb 25, 2011
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Sammy, with sbc power (and here I am going to assume it probably will not stay a 283 for long), and the desire to go 35's, I would certainly start putting a 44 together. Bolt on discs there also as you know. No sense putting a lot of $ in a 30 and ending up not too far from where you are at present. Not much difference in $ for chromemolly shafts for a 30 vs 44, may as well put the money into one that will last.
     
  4. Feb 25, 2011
    godevil

    godevil My Humor isnt appreciated

    Mt Pleasant SC
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    Aug 17, 2005
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    It never seems to leave the garage or pavement much so a 25 should hold up just fine.
    D
     
  5. Feb 25, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    One thing, the early Bronco has the differential on the wrong side.

    Personally, I'd build a 44 for that large of a tire and a v-8, but that's just me.
     
  6. Feb 25, 2011
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Just about any way you go about this, there is going to be some custom work, whether moving spring mounting outboard or customizing axle lengths. The FSJ waggy axles are about as narrow as you are going to get using unaltered widths, which at a nominal 60" is wider than my tastes. I'm shooting for something around 54" wms/wms on mine-just enough to keep the tires off the springs at full turn, using a high pinion center. The EB unit wouldn'd seem to offer much for a starting point other than the 5x5.5 hubs and maybe a set of gears (4.10's work very well behind a bigger sbc).
     
  7. Feb 25, 2011
    sammy

    sammy Coca-Cola?

    Albuquerque, NM
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    Keep it on topic or don't say anything at all, thanks.

    I'm aware the EB is on the wrong side, but it's fixable.
    My issue with a 44 is what 5 on 5.5 discs can I run up front, and how do I keep the diff case set so that it sits on the right side springs like stock, as well as what axle shafts to run. early waggys seem to be non existent here :(
     
  8. Feb 25, 2011
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Scout II will be right side diff, 5x5.5, most with disc brakes, 59.875" wms/wms (my measurement), zero degrees caster, and some pretty long steering arms. They will fit if you outboard the springs, but again, they are relatively wide. A friend of mine just redrilled the tapered holes for the tie rod ends, but that would make me very nervous as it leaves a relatively thin cross section and that is not exactly a place you would want to break. I am using the Scout II spindles, outer axles, and disc brakes with the Reid knuckles that have Chevy length steering arms. And I should add, the axle is far from finished so the jury is still out.
     
  9. Feb 25, 2011
    avmechanic

    avmechanic Gearhead

    Langley B.C. Canada
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    I am not sure which way I would go if I were you. If your budget is tight I think I would just go with the NT Dana 30. If you are into the challenge of building an axle and not too worried about coming up with cash for your parts I would probably try to build a 44. Just for an example, I am kind of in the same boat as you. I will be running about 300HP V8 in my flatty with 34" swampers and I have gone the NT Dana 30 route. Part of the reason was it was free, but aside from that, it is a good fit. It gives me my disk brakes and good turning radius. The axle was given to me from a good friend of mine that run it for years of abuse in his 81' cj5. He originally ran a 304 V8 then a 401 with it along with 35" tires the whole time. He never broke an axle, gear or u-joint in over 10 years of abuse. Maybe he was lucky but I was somewhat impressed. One reason it may have survived is that it was left with an open differential and we don't live in rock crawling country. (more like mountain trails and Mud) I am rebuilding it before I run it and I will be running stock axles. I have a second set of stock axles for it as spares as well. Maybe I will buy some chromo axles one day, or if I am bored I might build a 44 one day. Finding a narrow track 30 seems to be reasonably easy to do still. I would definitely consider it. I have also considered building a high pinion Dana 30 lately just for ****s and giggles. I was thinking of grabbing a $100 Pick-N-Pull Cherokee HP front axle and then pulling out the tubes and stick my NT Dana 30 outers with tubes on there, or replace the tube with new steel, and using stock or aftermarket NT 30 axles. It would be fun to really knock down an axle and put it back together a hybrid. This would work well for me as I need a set of 4.10 gears to match my rear and I would end up with a stronger HP front axle. 4.10 gears are common in 4cyl YJs an XJs. I could buy the whole axle for less than the cost of the gears I need. Anyway I hope I didn't get too off topic and made it as clear as mud for you. Cheers :)
    Greg
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  10. Feb 25, 2011
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I know I went with the D30 NT after looking into a D44. It seemed the narrowest I could get was @ 56" as I was not going to dig into it myself - I might one day - just didn't feel the need at the time. I limit my tire size to 33X10.5s as I do a bit in the rocks and know how tight things can get bound up.

    I am over 300 in torque - not sure on HP and with the SM465 and OX lockers I am pretty sure I could still tweek a D44 if I got too much in the stupid pedal... I think that is going to really answer your question, can you control the tick in your right foot at the right time ;)
     
  11. Feb 25, 2011
    sammy

    sammy Coca-Cola?

    Albuquerque, NM
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    Both good weigh ins, I know my buddy runs a 30 with a detroit and 36s with a 4.0L and Atlas in his YJ and rarely breaks anything in it. I had forgotten the later CJ's used 304's too...Doh! I would consider the HP but I'll run into oil pan clearance issues.
    Not sure how much power I'm running, as close as I can figure I'm in the 185hp and 250 ft. lbs of torque range, the 283 is mildly warmed up. I've had the 25 wedged in things and dumped the clutch just to try to break it and nothing. Kind of surprised. I plan on keeping it open, whichever I get, and just running the cutting brake to the front instead of the rear...Have a spool for the rear. Plus I like the challange of keeping it in 2wd ;) Thanks!
     
  12. Feb 25, 2011
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    with a 2bl 225 and driving it like I do I have yet to really hurt my d30 in anyway , I'm on 33's but I don't bounce the front end or jump it .now if I was running 35's maybe I might look at a 44 but .....meh 35s are overrated .
     
  13. Feb 25, 2011
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    not to beat a dead horse....
    but any 25, 27, 30, 44, 60, etc can be broken, depending on how you treat it.
    The front end in the air, and one wheel coming down before the other, and on the throttle, will 99% of the time break some component or another. Doesn't matter if the terrain is sand, rock, dirt, pavement., something will break.
    Trying to accelerate or give heavy throttle on a full turn condition, will also make something happen.
    It's all about driving technique is what I'm trying to say.
    just my experience and 0.2 worth
    but I'm keeping my NT D30 in mine, regardless.
     
  14. Feb 25, 2011
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    I totally agree with this ^
     
  15. Feb 27, 2011
    hotrod351

    hotrod351 Member

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    agree, ive been running a dana 25 front with stock 10 spline axles for over 20 years, and 90% hard core offroading, running a 350 sbc. i did break the carrier when i first got the jeep jumping the front in the sand, replaced it with another 25 and was good to go for many years. i finally bought a powerloc for the front 25, still with stock axles and havent had any problems. i think that most time these break is there just about to break, some one abused it before, or just happens. remember you can break anything. guess the perfect setup would be a 60 front and back, then the tranny would break.
     
  16. Feb 27, 2011
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Yes you can keep a 25 alive behind sbc power-I have also done so for nearly 35 years. I didn't even worry much about it until I put 31's on, and with the 33's, I cringe every time I air the front tires down. You know one mis-step with the right foot and it will likely be causing a bit of an environmental problem. Not a particularly good feeling, especially if one likes to do a lot solo trips. Chances are, when it does go, I can just drive home in 2X2, or pull the axle shafts if it is really bad.

    A 44 is a much better solution (for CJs or bears).
     
  17. Feb 27, 2011
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
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    The EB front D44 has small u-joints, the same size as a D30. The pumpkin is bigger, meaning less ground clearance. Plus the EB D44 pumpkin is a lot more "centered" than Jeep pumpkins. You may run into fitment issues with the front driveshaft.

    The EB internal hubs are stronger, plus it's easier to get high steer arms if your going SOA. The EB D44 is a pretty light wieght unit, the axles tubes are not heady duty like other full size D44.

    If you already have a disc braked D30, I would go with that.
     
  18. Feb 28, 2011
    Corveeper

    Corveeper Member

    Chanute, Kansas
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    Yup, throttle to brain ratio. Absolutely agreed.
    I’ve broken just about every part there is to break in a Dana 25, except the axle shafts though everyone tells me that’ll be the next to go :rofl:, and will readily admit every broken part was a result of inadequate throttle to brain ratio.
    Once I learned to back out of the throttle at the first hint of wheel hop my little Dana 25 started handling things better.
     
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