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Dana 25 tie rods?

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by Lazarus, May 23, 2015.

  1. May 23, 2015
    Lazarus

    Lazarus New Member

    Minnesota
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    Oct 15, 2014
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    17
    Hey all. Been lurking for a while, now I'm ready to modernize my jeep. I have a restored (stock) 1950 3a. Looking to upgrade my steering from the Ross set up to a modern power system, but keep the Dana 25. Anyone done this using the tie rod end with the extra hole? Or are there other ways to accomplish this? Not looking to upgrade axles yet
    Plans to use a new column, power box and pump from a mid 90's Cherokee.
    Now I need to figure out my tie rods and such to hook up to the Dana 25
     
  2. May 23, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    On my first iteration with power steering and D25 I used a wrangler tie rod with wrangler ends, cut it in half and welded it to the shorter length. I then took a ream and top mounted the tie rods into the knuckles. The wrangler tie rod has an eye for the drag link to pitman arm. I shortened that, welded it together with a piece of round stock inside because its hollow.

    I had unsatisfactory results. This does not mean it cannot be done and done well. It just means that i went to a d30 axle and everything is pretty much stock with little to no fabrication. It can also come with 11 drums or disks depending on what you get. I did have to change gears and that wasn't really that hard to do.

    Looking back, it was easier to do the d30 than piecing together the d25 random stuff.

    Like I said, it can be done and done well, but in my experience it isn't cheaper or easier to do than the whole swap. In fact for me, it was harder and more time consuming with less desired results to keep the d25.
     
  3. May 23, 2015
    Lazarus

    Lazarus New Member

    Minnesota
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    Oct 15, 2014
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    Thanks for the response. Actually have a d30 on my bench. But need diff gears (5:38) to match my 41 rear. Now you have me thinking. Do you know if 5:38 can be swapped in any d30? Was holding off on using the 30 because $$ and not sure if I can actually put 5:38 on it
     
  4. May 23, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Yes. I installed 5.38 gears in my D30 to match my d44. The d30 is a better axle just because you can buy the steering parts that are stock to go with the saginaw box. The axle literally bolts right in. Open knuckles so no pudding, axle shafts are readily available, all parts are easy to get, better stock brake options..... If you already have one, just install it.

    this is long, http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/show...-iteration-questions&highlight=dana+iteration but read it. its full of good stuff for you.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
  5. May 23, 2015
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Sep 17, 2009
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    The best solution is to find the 2 hole right side knuckle and use a "full length" tie rod rather than use the double joint TRE which can hit the springs. Those knuckles are found on the later Willys wagons and pickups and the 63-73 Wagoneers/Gladiators. It doesn't matter if the axle is D25/27/44. All the knuckles from the closed knuckle versions of those interchange. For a tie rod, I just used one from a 72, ran an 11/16-18 tap (from ENCO) down the right threaded end to get threads deeper for shortening it up and then cut it to the desired length. It is possible you wouldn't even need to shorten it with the stock TRE's. That worked for several decades on the 3B and only with the D44 front axle project did it get replaced. Just as strong as any stock setup and doesn't require an engineering degree.
     
  6. May 23, 2015
    Pack Rat

    Pack Rat Old Timer

    I live in a...
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    70/71 Jeepster Commando also use the two hole knuckle.
     
  7. May 23, 2015
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    It sounds like the easiest (and cheapest) route is to install a one-piece tie rod on your D25. This has been done for about 50 years now. You simply remove your two short tie rods that meet in the center at the bellcrank, move the tierod end with the second tapered hole over to the right knuckle (after installing it on a new long one-piece section you just sourced from a later Jeep) attaching the other end to the left knuckle. This makes a fixed length to properly adjust toe between the knuckles. I have always been able to use one of the short tie rods removed earlier to connect the steering box pitman arm to the right knuccle via that second tapered hole. You can reuse everything you have, except having to find a long tie rod from the 1970s Jeeps. No drilling, reaming, or welding, and its all stock Jeep parts!
    -Donny
     
    Farmjeep99 likes this.
  8. May 24, 2015
    Wenaha

    Wenaha Member

    West Coast
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    Feb 6, 2014
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    Herm, among others, has all the parts for changing to a one long tie rod set up. I have this set up on my 2A with D25 front axle. Works fine.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
  9. May 24, 2015
    Lazarus

    Lazarus New Member

    Minnesota
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    Oct 15, 2014
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    All, good stuff. Thanks.
    looks like Herms set up is like what keys5a suggests.
    another ? With the stock frame/engine, how far fwd is the PS box? I don't have the box yet, just planning.
    i read many posts but was just looking at the frame and can't remember anyone's location
     
  10. May 24, 2015
    Wenaha

    Wenaha Member

    West Coast
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    Feb 6, 2014
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    The steering box for Saginaw power steering is usually mounted on the DS frame rail in front of the grille. A Ford reverse box is sometimes mounted on the frame behind the grille, but it is a rather tight fit.
     
  11. May 24, 2015
    Lazarus

    Lazarus New Member

    Minnesota
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    Oct 15, 2014
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    Yep, just did some quick reads to refresh my memory.
    I need to quit kicking tires and start putting things together.
    Thanks
     
  12. May 24, 2015
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    If its a 'stock' setup, you may want to reconsider pulling the power from the 4cyl for the pump. You would be amazed at what you will gain with a manual Saginaw box. I usually build mine to fit a power box, and put a manual in it's place for most setups. It allows for an easy upgrade in the future if you end up needing it - easy to do to - just moves the mount a bit forward from the 'manual' position.
     
  13. May 26, 2015
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    X2 on what Chuck said...I'm running a manual Saginaw box on mine now, and its a great upgrade. If you do decide to go manual, I'd recommend the 2 hole steering knuckle setup- it really reduces steering effort and bump steer vs. the double tie rod set up.
     
  14. May 29, 2015
    Lazarus

    Lazarus New Member

    Minnesota
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    Oct 15, 2014
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    I have a line on a Dana 27 two hole outer. Its from a scout. Is there any thing to consider of from a scout?
     
  15. Jun 28, 2015
    flatyfreek

    flatyfreek Member

    Hillsburrito, OR
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    I run a Saginaw power steering box without power on my 66 CJ5. I filled the box with ATF and looped a hose between the 2 ports. Steers like a champ compared to the Ross. When I repower I'll hook up a pump and make it that much better.
     
  16. Jul 5, 2015
    Lazarus

    Lazarus New Member

    Minnesota
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    Interesting set up. I wonder how that compares to a non power box?
    The manual boxes are harder to find and cost more?
     
  17. Jul 5, 2015
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Depends - for a long time I could find manual boxes for $50 or less and a lot easier than power. Been getting power boxes more recent, but still have a few manual boxes in the parts bin.
     
  18. Jul 8, 2015
    davet

    davet Member

    Andover, MN
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
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    I went to the local junkyard and found the tie rod and drag-link from a 3/4 or 1 ton Dodge pickup. I run threaded rod ends and the holes in the knuckles are drilled out straight. The 1 ton rods were needed to prevent the bending I was getting with the PS and stock rods.
     
    Mark T. likes this.
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