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Clutch Woes

Discussion in 'Jeepster Commando and Commando Tech' started by jackdog, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. Sep 2, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    Having trouble with the clutch in my 71 Jeepster releasing. It's a new LUK clutch and pressure plate. When installed the pedal pushes so hard it ruins clutch cables and the whole pedal assembly twists. I thought maybe I put the clutch disc in backwards but when I took it out today it was correct. It uses that long 84" cable to actuate the clutch. Any ideas?
     
  2. Sep 3, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    I can't remember the exact details but TomTom had to deal with a similar problem. If I recall, there was an issue with some LUK clutch disks not having a chamfer on the center boss that would interfere with the clutch operating correctly. If you can look at the original clutch disk and the LUK you will probably see the difference.
     
  3. Sep 3, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    I think the problem was that the missing chamfer was on the inner splines on the clutch disk, that would cause the clutch disk splines to hit the end of the inputs shaft splines. That would press the clutch disk tight against the flywheel and couldn't release. The pressure plate could release one side of the disk but the other side was still jammed against the flywheel. It acted a lot like if you installed the disk in backwards.
     
  4. Sep 3, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    are you sure it's not a problem with the floorboard and the small plate the cable end secures to ?
    they were notorious for clutch cable problems.
    was it working satisfactory before clutch replacement?
    jonah is correct about the disc center hub spline depth problem.
    it happened to me, although pedal pressure wasn't a problem.
     
  5. Sep 4, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    I don't believe it has anything to do with the floorboard hole where the cable comes thru. When I had the body off I reinforced that area. I compared the LUK disc to another disc I removed from a Jeepster and there is at least a 1/4" difference in the hub spline the LUK being shorter, would that cause this problem? I used this exact LUK clutch and pressure plate in my 3A project and it worked fine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  6. Sep 4, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    Apparently not all LUK clutches had the problem, I think older stock was OK but they must have changed the manufacturing process at some point. It will cause the clutch to bind. I am guessing that the pedal is adjusted to the point where the pressure plate is bottoming out and the pedal gets hard. Or is the pedal hard to push for the entire range of motion?
     
  7. Sep 4, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    Hard to push all the way especially near the end. The hub spline on the LUK is shorter by a 1/4" on the engine side and 1/4" longer on transmission side compared to the disc I took out of a running Jeepster.
     
  8. Sep 4, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    I put both clutch discs on the input shaft and pushed them back to the bearing retainer and measured from the transmission to the disc. The Luk is a 1/4" closer to the flywheel. Would I be right assuming that it would be tight against the flywheel and unable to release?
     
  9. Sep 4, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    That is correct, it will not release. But the pedal shouldn't be hard to push, that problem shouldn't effect the pressure plate unless the cable is so far out of adjustment that it bottoms out. If that were the case I would expect it to feel normal then abruptly stop.

    So you may have a two part problem. I would detach the cable from the throw out arm and confirm that the pedal and cable move freely. When you install a new disk make sure the fingers on the pressure plate look normal, then when installed set the pedal free play and cross your fingers!
     
    jjdebarros and 45es like this.
  10. Sep 5, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    Replaced the Luk clutch kit with a clutch set up I took out of a working Jeepster and put it all back together and nothing changed. The pedal pushes hard all the way and doesn't move the clutch fork very much. The clutch still does not release with the different clutch plate. Basically nothing has changed changed. Everything appears to be correct per the FSM.
     
  11. Sep 5, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    That is odd. When the clutch was out and bell housing separated from the engine, I assume the pedal and cable moved freely? Did the fork and throw out bearing also moved freely before the cable was attached?
     
  12. Sep 5, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    The pedal moves free, cable is new and the clutch fork and T/O bearing are free and work as they should. It's as if the pressure plate will not depress.
     
  13. Sep 5, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Only things left then are the t/o bearing placement on the fork and/or the pivot for the fork.
    I can reach in and push my pedal to the floor easily with my hand with the LUK clutch.
     
  14. Sep 5, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    That is pretty strange. What is the history? Were you just changing the clutch? Trans, bell housing, engine and flywheel were working before and unchanged?

    I know we have a new cable, and I assume there is a new throw out bearing?

    Got any pics?
     
  15. Sep 6, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    This is the Jeepster I'm working on: Couldn't resist I have tried the one piece bell housing without the adapter and now I have the bell housing with the adapter installed. Also different throw out bearings. Rebuilt trans and engine, flywheel resurfaced. Nothing seems to change the problem. I will try to get photos up when I take it apart again for the 4th time. :steamed:
     
  16. Sep 6, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    That is frustrating. I hate doing things twice-let alone 4 times!

    How much free play do you have on the pedal?

    Thanks for the link to you build thread!
     
  17. Sep 6, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    I set the free play at about 3/4", but every time you push the pedal down it gets longer. I read this link hard clutch pedal cure - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups and it sounds like the Jeepsters with the long cable are prone to this. I now remember the guy I got the jeepster from that I took the clutch and pressure plate from and installed in mine said his father parked it because of clutch issues. I have been putting clutches in Jeeps for 40 years and never had issues like this.
     
  18. Sep 6, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    and Jeepsters have had clutch issues since day one.....
     
  19. Sep 6, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

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    That was an interesting read and makes a lot sense. Definitely sounds it could be the problem. What is the geometry on your fork like? Is it at a steep angle?
     
  20. Sep 12, 2019
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
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    I got some time and pulled it out again and have been going thru everything. I put the Luk clutch plate on the input shaft and slid into place without the bell housing to see if it really would bind. Found out it had 1/2" of travel when everything is lined up, so I don't believe the Luk kit is the problem. I checked the clutch fork I was using in the removed bell housing and it bound up half way back and where it made contact with the T/O bearing it was wore down. I put another clutch fork in I had laying around and no binding. Both forks look identical. Ordered a new one to use. Also ordered a new pivot stud 3/16" longer as mentioned in the hard pedal cure article.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019

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