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Clutch Linkage Question On A 72

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by joltes, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. Aug 28, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member 2019 Sponsor

    Wheeling, WV
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    I am still trying to figure out what is original to my Renegade, and have come to a question about my clutch. I looked at my linkage, which appeared to me to be "off". It is a rod from the pedal through the floorboard to the linkage. When I looked in my TSM, it suggests that I should have a cable actuated clutch. Anyone have any input on this?


    Does this look original to anyone?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  2. Aug 28, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Cable was most likely factory for 72.
    Then later, Jeep made a conversion kit to solid linkage.
    Sold over the counter thru the parts department.
    That's what I recall anyway.
     
  3. Aug 29, 2019
    mrtii

    mrtii 1972 cj51986 cj7 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    gilroy, California
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    My 72 has cable with 304 and t15 set up like yours. Mine matches what the factory repair book states, I do not know which is more reliable but I would guess the linkage won that battle.
     
  4. Aug 29, 2019
    nwedgar

    nwedgar Now with TBI!

    Newnan, Georgia
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    That looks like the later linkage style that I pulled off my '74. FWIW, if you're not going for a restoration you may want to think about hydraulic. Might take some additional bracket fabrication for a '72 bellhousing, but the reliability is better.
     
  5. Aug 29, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Jim is correct, the '72 CJs and Commandos originally came with a cable-actuated clutch. That's what your '72 TSM will show. The cable would be great if it was reliable, but owners had a lot of trouble with the cables freezing.

    In the '72-73 period (late '72?) there was a Service Bulletin and a parts kit to replace the original cable in a '72 with a mechanical clutch - the bellcrank. Lots of '72s got this kit under warranty. Any owner that complained about the clutch or needed a clutch cable replacement got the kit. These kit parts look and work like the '73-75 mechanical linkage, but they are not entirely the same.

    Somewhere online I saw diagrams comparing the two types of mechanical linkages, but I don't recall where. Maybe search will turn up something. IIRC the pedals are different, so the '72 has some new part that clamps to the original pedal and works with the new push rod? Frame bracket could be different. The bellcrank itself is probably the same.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  6. Aug 29, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Thread from 2007 about this topic - Get'n Rid of the 72 Clutch Cable

    Unfortunately, the embedded pictures were lost along the way. There have been a couple of crashes of this site between then and now caused by hackers or flaky ISP or something.
     
  7. Aug 29, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member 2019 Sponsor

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    Ok. I read through that post. Looks like I'll be doing some googling later today when time allows.
     
  8. Aug 29, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    You might try pulling up ECJ5 ca 2008? on the Wayback and find that thread. Some of the pictures might have survived in archive.

    Working now - maybe I'll try that tonight.
     
  9. Aug 29, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member 2019 Sponsor

    Wheeling, WV
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    I’m not really sure how to find that archived version you speak of
     
  10. Aug 29, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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  11. Aug 29, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    1972 CJ clutch cable diagram from parts manual.

    [​IMG]

    1972 CJ clutch solid linkage diagram from parts manual.
    Note the bolt on bracket to the clutch pedal at top.
    Might be one way to decipher if a Jeep has been converted.

    [​IMG]

    1973 CJ clutch solid linkage diagram from parts manual.
    Note the change in the clutch pedal design.
    Bracket is now incorporated into the pedal design.

    [​IMG]

    Hope these diagrams help.
     
  12. Aug 29, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member 2019 Sponsor

    Wheeling, WV
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    Bingo! Thats awesome! That is exactly what I have. Glad to know that it is at least "factory" and not something that a PO cobbled together! I would love to get one of the parts catalogs. They seem to have a good bit more info than just the TSM.

     
  13. Aug 29, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    These may be a little easier to read.
    1972CableClutch.jpg 1972BellcrankClutch.jpg 1973BellcrankClutch.jpg

    Not to steal Jim's thunder, but I wanted to see them rotated. Then I got carried away, and made them a little larger, a little brighter, a little less yellow. May as well share! :coffee:

    The 5.168-11a shims only apply to the 232/258 engines.
     
  14. Aug 29, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Not my thunder Tim....I didn't like looking at them sideways either....
     
  15. Aug 29, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member 2019 Sponsor

    Wheeling, WV
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    Lol. I saved them, then turned them too!
     
  16. Aug 29, 2019
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    I had a '72 with the retrofit mechanical linkage. The body tub was rusty, and ended up tearing out the front mount at the triangel bracket. Every time I would push the clutch pedal in, the whole front cowl/body would lift up. There was a lot of mechanical leverage, transfered to the body. My guess is thats why the linkage was changed again for '73.
    -Donny
     
  17. Aug 29, 2019
    Iandavidh

    Iandavidh Member

    California
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    On my 73 it has broken at that front hat rail underneath the bracket for the bellcrank and is pulling up the body like you described. I’ve bent up some thin metal to act as straps to hold the hat rail on the body and hopefully fix the body flex.(Haven’t welded them on yet but hope it works)
     
  18. Sep 1, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    In all cases, movement between the body and the frame is a significant problem with this linkage. With one front wheel stuffed and the other hanging, the clutch no longer releases. Same for all of them, even factory-new examples. BTDT. The cable would have been a great improvement if it were more durable.
     
  19. Sep 1, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I think this view puts the cart before the horse. I suspect Donny's observation that the body lifted up was related to the loss of that front mount, not any additional redesign for the '73 model.

    Being there in '72, I know the Service Bulletin for replacing the cable system with the bellcrank did not come out until well into the 1972 model year. I would presume the design for 1973 came first, after Jeep was getting lots of warranty claims for the clutch cables (they were!) Vehicle development took a lot longer in those days. I recall these cables froze up so hard that customers were bending and tearing up the floor steel around the cable mount, applying so much force to the clutch pedal. Once the '73 redesign was complete, the existing parts were adapted to the '72 system, as an expedient to forego the continued customer complaints and warranty claims associated with the cables used for '72. I don't think anything else changes for the '72 retrofit other than the 5.135-2a bracket that bolts to the pedal and the 5.168-2c mount that would be part of the frame for a '73-up.
     
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