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CJ5 Transmission Parts Inspection

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by chief1983, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. Jun 16, 2017
    chief1983

    chief1983 Member

    Saint Charles, MO
    Joined:
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    So, after over 5 years I finally decided to dig into the back of the Jeep, where the PO had dumped most of the drivetrain when the transmission died. Better shape than I thought, but some questions arose.

    First, what is that little metal stub on the transmission floor cover?

    [​IMG]

    Secondly, where is the Dana 18 shift lever? At first I just assumed it was missing, but then I noticed the transmission floor cover has a stub on the passenger side, covering the transfer case lever hole. And this looks stock! This was a farm Jeep in its previous life as I understand. Could a PO have deleted the levers and covered the hole (maybe with a 2wd Jeep floor cover), and simply left the hubs engaged all the time? When I spun the gear inside the TC, both shafts spun, so it would seem it was last left in 4x4.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The damage isn't as bad as I had originally suspected. I might be able to reuse a lot of the major components of this T-86. But not at least one of these gears.

    [​IMG]

    I had tried to reinstall the upper shaft to see if everything might still somewhat move together in unison but I could not actually finagle it together. I had assumed it came apart assembled like this though, but maybe that's not a valid assumption.

    [​IMG]

    Not really sure what the plate under the transmission is, unless that's just a brush/rock guard plate. But not sure why it would have all those holes.
     
  2. Jun 16, 2017
    chief1983

    chief1983 Member

    Saint Charles, MO
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
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    Winch PTO. I think I've got all the parts I need for it.

    [​IMG]

    One more Dana 18 pic.

    [​IMG]

    I still have both yolks, and what looks to be all the u-join u-bolts. Although I'm not sure much of this hardware is salvageable. I will try to clean it up with a wire wheel and acid bath but I think anything threaded is probably toast. Still blows my mind how short a rear driveshaft is on these CJ5s.

    [​IMG]

    Another pic of the gear cluster. Definitely some rust, but hoping most of those parts might be serviceable, although I may just end up buying a set of fresh T-86 parts instead. Or T-90 parts.

    [​IMG]

    Lastly, I have some other random parts that were in the bed extender. Clutch cable, transmission cover, floor cover again, and some things I am less certain about their purpose. Thought one was transmission to transfer case adapter, but it seemed those two bolt directly together? So maybe it's transmission to bellhousing? Not sure about the metal plates, the dogtooth gear, or that bearing either.

    [​IMG]

    I plan on looking through some schematics of these components to double check that I'm not missing anything and hopefully identify these parts but if anything jumps out as missing or where something goes besides those transfer case sticks, I'd love to hear it.
     
  3. Jun 16, 2017
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    A little help to get you going: The large adapter plate in the lower left of the above pic is the transmission to bellhousing adapter. Above and left of that is what looks like the rear end of the parking brake cable system. The four small rectangular pieces with 2 holes in each one are spacers that go between the transmission cross-member and the bottom of the frame (2 stacked on each side). You can sort of see their outline on the last photo of the first post on the ends of the crossmember.

    The D18 shifter doesn't appear to be pictured...T86 should mean v6 with single stick D18 (although twin stick conversions are popular). The semi circular piece sticking off of the passenger side of the transmission floor cover is not where a single stick D18 shifter would come up (not sure how about earlier twin sticks). The D18 would come up through the larger center floor 'hump' (transmission floor cover goes on top of the center of this) and would be forward and towards the passenger side of the t86 cover - almost where the floorpans start to turn up into the firewall.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  4. Jun 16, 2017
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Just a skid plate that bolts to the underside the cross-member - has lots of holes I assume for accessing different drain plugs and whatnot for a range of applications. Mine uses the square holes to mount to the cross-member - allows for a carriage bolt and keeps the bottom of the skid a bit smoother.
     
  5. Jun 16, 2017
    chief1983

    chief1983 Member

    Saint Charles, MO
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    Ok skid plate was actually the word I was looking for. And a lot of what you posted I had surmised in my wordier original post but edited out for character length. Those Google Image links are _long_. I knew about the single stick on my v6 transfer case. But yeah I haven't seen that stick anywhere around the truck. The pto cutout for my jeep is actually behind the transmission one, not beside it. I had seen twin stick Dana 18 setups that do use that space on the side. Odd that the single stick setup would be routed through the floor so differently. I wanted to convert to twin stick but maybe I'll just keep it stock after all.

    I had heard of the crossmember spacers, I think a member had an issue with them being gone and it wrecking his alignment of all the various parts going together until he replaced them with wood spacers or something.

    I figured that was the bellhousing adapter but I thought the t86 just mated directly to it. I guess the adapter is why it needs the long shaft though. Thanks for the clarifications. I'll keep looking around the jeep for that shifter hardware but pretty sure I didn't miss anything. Guess I'm in the market for anything not in these pics that should be!
     
  6. Jun 16, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Just a comment on the T-86... the case has the same internal dimensions as a T-90, and you can replace the gears with T-90 gears. To do this, you have to replace all of the gears, so the transmission is a T-90 internally and T-86 externally. This has been done many times, and it's likely the only way you'll repair that broken cluster gear.

    I see you mentioned T-90, so you are likely aware of this issue. Not a lot of T-86 spares out there ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  7. Jun 16, 2017
    Twin2

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    yep replace all the guts with a T 90 . as to transfer case shifter . it was mounted to the bell adapter . so it's forward on floor near firewall . maybe someone with stock location will post picture
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  8. Jun 16, 2017
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Ron has a good point - check your bellhousing and see if its hanging there on the passenger side...I left mine hanging the last time I had to pull the transmission etc.
     
  9. Jun 16, 2017
    chief1983

    chief1983 Member

    Saint Charles, MO
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    Good point, although it would probably be visible from the cab sticking through the floor? Don't remember seeing it but maybe it laid flat and fell through or something, I'll check. And yeah I've had my eye open for a t86 or t90 guts for that reason. But if I only need one or two gears I may just rebuild the 86 if I can source the individual components I need. I still feel like it's not a certainty whether the 90 is stronger than the 86 or not.
     
  10. Jun 16, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    I kinda think the only way you can replace that cluster gear is to find a complete T-86 ... and then you'll have a complete T-86. The T-90 parts are being reproduced, so you can either buy the gears or find a donor.

    Regarding strength, the T-90 is stronger. The main difference in the two is the spiral splines on the main shaft (T-86) vs. straight (T-90), and the angle of the sliding gear teeth, angled (T-86) versus straight (T-90), and the bolt pattern at the bell (larger square for the T-86). A straight gear is noisy (whine), but stronger than angled. The more angle, the weaker the gears. The T-86 is "improved" in that it's quieter, and the spiral splines must have some effect on shifting. But the T-90 should be stronger.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  11. Jun 16, 2017
    47v6

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    I could be wrong and probably am, but doesn't the single shift one mount to the adapter that bolt in between the bell and transmission?
     
  12. Jun 16, 2017
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Mine bolts onto the bellhousing (T14 with adapter block).
     
  13. Jun 17, 2017
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    IIRC the tcase shift lever bolts to the adapter. You can see the boss that it pivots on sticking out on the side of the adapter pictured above.
     
  14. Jun 17, 2017
    teletech

    teletech Member

    Santa Cruz, CA
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    Wow, your situation seems very much like mine which I started on just under one year ago. A damaged, disassembled T86 left for years.
    I figured out mine had already been changed to T90 guts only after buying a NOS T86 second gear.
    If it's any encouragement, I've been driving mine around for weeks now and loving it.

    I do have a coffee-can of old gearbox bits, I'll see if there is a countershaft for the T86 in my parts.
    The other seem to answered most of your questions, but I'll help where I can.
    Pretty sure the little metal stub in your first photo is some PO addition, I don't have anything like it.
    Your cover having the twin-stick half-moon blanked out is normal for the single stick, and the single stick hole will be the one that seems impossibly-far away, too small, and too far forward. It's about 1.25" oval and by the passenger's left outer foot up on the angled bit of floor/firewall.

    The part below and right of your u-joint u-bolts is a shift-tube mount, they are usually trash anyway and any pitting will eat into the tube, and it's cheap to replace so do yourself a favor and toss that one.

    Looks like you need a new clutch fork because the old ball-pivot spring is broken.
    Check the pivot ball (in the bellhousing) for flat spots and replace if needed.

    The metal plates are spacers that go between the crossmember and frame.

    the gear is a synchro, if it's not out of the gearbox, it's almost certainly for the PTO... oh, nope, it's for the gearbox, it lives between the removed mainshaft and what's left in the gearbox.

    the thing below that is your clutch throwout bearing.
    Buy a new release bearing unless you are really, really sure that one is good, such cheap insurance against having to pull the gearbox out again.
     
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  15. Jun 17, 2017
    chief1983

    chief1983 Member

    Saint Charles, MO
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    So yeah, after I took a closer look, the TC shifter is just flopping around through the hole in the floor. It was basically laying flat on the floor of the jeep, hiding under the shredded seat cover and a chainsaw I had laying on the floor. The bracket is still there to bolt back up to the adapter plate, so the hardware for that is probably in that pile on the table somewhere. Guess I'm not missing any major components after all, so that's good news.

    I planned on buying a new bearing, that one felt like it had a rough spot when I spun it around. Besides the needle bearings that fell out of the u-joint, there were a few larger needle bearings loose in and around the transmission case. I haven't been able to identify which component they had fallen out of, so right now, anything that might be able to just lose its needle bearings is suspect.
     
  16. Jun 17, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Yep - maybe a place to hook the bungie cord to keep the PTO shifter from flopping around? Or to hook the bungie cord to keep the transfer case shifter from rattling?
     
  17. Jun 17, 2017
    chief1983

    chief1983 Member

    Saint Charles, MO
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    Haven't seen any bungie cords but maybe that purpose will be obvious when it's all back together. I'll keep those ideas in mind.
     
  18. Jun 17, 2017
    teletech

    teletech Member

    Santa Cruz, CA
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    Glad you have all your shifter bits.

    Those would be the needles bearings that used to live between the mainshaft and output shaft on your gearbox.
    A small parts kit is like $45 and will have every needle bearing you need along with lock plates and a lot of other good stuff.
    I got mine from Novak because I like them and they have good technical staff but if you really need to you can save about 10% shopping around.
     
  19. Jun 17, 2017
    chief1983

    chief1983 Member

    Saint Charles, MO
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    After all the free research I do on their site I probably owe them a little business.
     
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  20. Jun 18, 2017
    Twin2

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    from fockers build thread
    [​IMG]
     
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