Cj5 Dauntless / T90 Adapt And Other Trans

hallo from france

i have a cj5 1968 with the hurricane and t90 . form what i v e read , it a t90c .
i already have my dauntless in the garage (coming out from a boat ) . i need to find or creat exhaust manifold

a member of this forum , can give me a bell housing (thanks to him) for this v6

i kown there is some parts to change , i already read novak adapt chapter about that.

but , with my mechanical english , i don t understand all .

so i m looking for pics , showing me the number and the exact parts that i need to change , adapt or "create" (i m leaving in valley , with lot of mechanical factory) .
and where the go

is it possible to make a "junk yard adaptation" to reduce the cost ( i hope yo will understand what i mean ).



other questions :

why i have to change cluster and input shaft ???

thank you for your help , sorry for this kind of questions , but in france find these parts it s impossible and shipping from usa is very expensive , plus taxes !!!!!

greg

 

Your T90C that is mated to the 4 cylinder Hurricane has a short input shaft and the iron bellhousing is shallow. You will likely need to find a longer input shaft for your T90 as was used on the later 1950's Willys wagons with a T90J to use an aftermarket adapter/spacer designed to mate the V6 bellhousing to the T90 trans. This longer input shaft may require a different lower cluster gear in the T90 too, depending on tooth count of the gears. I believe the T90A and T90J cluster gears are compatible with the long input shaft.
-Donny

 

This is correct. Novak has a page about this. The Novak Guide to the Borg-Warner T90 Transmission

The T-90C has different gear ratios (rapports de démultiplication) than the T-90A and T-90J. The usual adapter for GM engines needs the long input shaft from the T-90J so you have room for the adapter between the transmission and engine. The input shaft from the T-90J will not mesh with the gears in the T-90C (engrenages de ne seront pas maille).

A junkyard option? You can take the T-86 or T-14 transmission and adapter from a V6 CJ-5 and use that. The 225 V6 was never offered with the T-90 transmission, so the only option there is an aftermarket adapter.

Novak has an adapter that will work with the T-90C - kit G9N. Adapting the Chevrolet & GM Standard Shift Bellhousings to the Jeep T90 Transmission Contact them and ask if they will sell one to you in France.

If you are or have access to a skilled machinist, you probably could make the adapter, like the G9N kit.

 

ok , if i understand :

when i put a 90c with the stock input + bell housing for v6 + v6 = the shaft coming out from the t90c will no go inside the clutch mounted on the v6 flywheel.
because is too short

correct ?????


when i ve said junk yard , it was also : home made parts , a hack (i hope it s the right word)


2) if i buy parts at novak :

you say kit = g9n , but i don t see a shaft

i see a shaft only in the c1 kit

 

what is the difference of lenght beetween a stock input and a novak input

or

how much do i have to expend the stock input

 

Correct - The T-90J shaft is longer, so it will reach the flywheel.

Un adaptateur est nécessaire entre la transmission T-90 et la bell housing.

The adapter in kit C1 is thick (épaisse), so the long T-90J shaft is necessary.

The adapter in kit G9N is thin (mince), so the T-90C shaft is ok - it will reach the flywheel.

Yes, "junkyard solution" means using parts from old cars, or modifying old car parts to work. If you are a skilled machinist (machiniste qualifié) perhaps you could make the adapter for kit G9N. The bearing retainer (retenue de roulement) look like an ordinary GM/Buick part, modified to work.

 

I don't know exactly. Approximately 10 cm?

 

ok

 

that much !!!!!!!!!!!!!

i hope it was like adpat a t90 and v6 ford "cologne" . you make a a ring about 45mm to sabilize the shaft in the fly wheel !!

i am in the deep sh... , i will have to pay a lot

 

Mmm. Maybe more like 5-6 cm. My inches to centimeters mental conversion is quite sloppy.

Question - if the Ford engine is so easy, why are you using a GM/Buick engine? The Ford would have similar performance, and it should be easily sourced in Europe... say a Merkur or Transit 2.9L?

In the USA, we have the Cologne 4.0L... but I expect those cars are scarce in Europe.

Do the phrases en francais help? Obviously I don't speak the language. It's hard to judge your understanding from so few words.

 

ok , for the phrases . sometimes it s like french for me , and sometimes i have to think about it few minutes .
i hope it s the same when i m writting

ford engine : why

-i wish a jeep with "her" engine"
-the ford don t a have the same torque and same sound
-in france / germany/switzerland you can find a lot a ford engine . but there is 2 problems
1) price = lot of people use this engine in race car (escort mk1 e 2 ) , so an engine in good shape is expensive
2) the not expensive engine (700/1000e) have , often , are in bad shape and parts begin to be expensive if you want something good
3) i bought my dauntless 400e . is in perfect shape . it have turned less than 1000 hours in a boat , in fresh water since 1978 . he s complete :starter , carburetor, altenator , fuel pump ,etc
big summary = i found 2 "feet" to install it in the cj and it s ok . the gear box is the problem but i can solve it
4) why doing the same than everybody


5 or 6 cm , is the same if the splines dont go in the cluch

if we have 5ou 6cm but the splines in the clutch , i can do something . a ring , and a bearing + another ring in the fly wheel

one of my customer show me what he have a done on an engine (i hope you will understand ) :

he made a spacer to moove forward the fly wheel (no touch with the house bell) , lthet wa the input shaft is in the cluch
he modified the shaft for the starter : much longer , like that it can hit the flywheel teeth
he modified the clutch fork and pinion location

if only the problem was : input shaft not in contact with the crankshaft or the fly wheel it will be easy

 

I like the concept of the thin adapter plate to the T90C. There would be no need to tear into the transmission and you could retain the lower ratio first gear. However, I believe spacing might be an issue. My 1970 CJ5 has the stock V6, with a T90J and the thick adapter behind it. The stock engine placement is about as far to the rear as it can be without hitting the firewall, and with the thick adapter, the transmission is in approximately the stock location. If it was further forward with the thin adapter you would have issues with shifter and dashboard interference, floor pan modifications, and you'd have to relocate the cross member. There may be other issues as well. I'm sure it could be done but these are just potential problems to consider.

 

hallo , i was unable to answer .

thanks for the answer

 

hallo

another question from your french fan

i found a new gear box :










for me it s a t 150 :

from novak :
-The Jeep T150 was factory-married only to the Jeep Dana Spicer Model 20 transfer case.
-

it was with a 304 amc :



and behind there was a dana 20



from novak = Markings on the Dana 20 can vary, but most start with a C18-15-24...




am i right for the t150 ??????



is it better for me and for my dauntless swap :

1) use my t90 (used with the hurricane) + buick bell housing +dauntless

or


2) use the t150 (founded) + buick bell housing + dauntless



nb: bell housing (founded by a man of this forum ) : Bell housing from a GM passenger car for a 225 V-6



thanks , for you answers

 

It's definitely a T-150. The numbers in the side of the case should identify it. The Ford "butterfly" bell pattern is distinctive.

The T-150 is a fine transmission for the Dauntless, but it need a bull gear (output gear) with a seal ridge that only works with the Dana 20. You can install the Dana 18 output gear but then the seal won't work. It may be ok for the T-150 and Dana 18 to share oil (ie no seal), but I don't know that for certain. The T-90 and the Dana 18 do share oil, but they were designed to work that way. The T-150 was not.

You could also use a Dana 20 with the T-150 and switch to a centered rear axle.

 

i have a dana 20 with my hurricane = only one shifter on it , or i ve made another mistake

sorry but , i dont understand every thing :

if i already have a dana20 on my cj , i can t put together my dana20 with the t150 without buying sepcial parts ????

is it what you mean ??? i ask you this question because on the cj where was the t150 , it was a dana20 (sorry , i didn say it is a cj5 with 304 amc)

 

A '68 with a F134 should have the Dana 18 transfer case. The Dana 20 has a centered rear output.



Dana 20 on the left, Dana 18 on the right. Front of the Jeep to the left.

All Dana 20s have one shifter. Some Dana 18s (later) only have one shifter. Some Dana 18s have two shifters (earlier).

Your rear axle offset must match the transfer case. The drive shaft must go straight back from the transfer case to the rear axle.

You said 304 above. Anyway, I knew it was a Dana 20 with the T-150. All T-150s came with Dana 20s.

 

ok , sometimes i want to kill the engineers

ok if follow and i extrapolate what you say ( if mine is a 18) :

it s better to buy all in one shot : the gear box and the transfer case dana20 coming out from the cj with the 304

i ask this question because , i ve just seen the owner of the 304 cj = he wants to sell both in one shot !

the gear box is bleeding oil , and sometimes the t 150 is cracking in 1st

 

if i look at your picture :

i need to change my rear axle too with t150+dana20

 

If you use axles from the 304 Jeep, The rear axle will need the spring perches moved inward, because the frame width of the T-150 Jeep is wider. The spring perches will have to be ground off and new perches welded on.

The gear ratio for the front and rear axles must match. Your '68 is either 4.27:1 ratio or 5.38:1 ratio. The T-150 Jeep is probably 3.54:1, or possibly 4.10:1. The 3.54 gears are too low numerically for the F134 - top speed will be lower and you will lose acceleration. 4.10 gears would be ok, but they are optional and not common.

The T-150 Jeep axles are an AMC 20 rear and an open knuckle Dana 30 front. The Dana 30 front is a nice upgrade, but again, the ratio must match the rear axle. The AMC 20 has some problems, but it would be ok with the V6. It is not an upgrade from your existing Dana 44 rear axle.