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rear lockout stud problem again

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by bkd, Dec 14, 2010.

  1. Dec 14, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member

    K-Town Tenn.
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    put studs in several years ago to hold the Warn lockouts on the D44 full float rear axle. They came loose during my Mojave Road trip last spring but I had a few spares to replace the ones that fell out.
    Fast forward to yesterday........about a mile from my house I found that the drivers side lockout was falling out......I stud and nut holding it on:shock:......I was able to tighten it up and limp home. Damage, 3 studs missing....2 broken off in the hub.
    Each time I worked on these I've used locktite to secure the studs to the hub. Always the drivers side that loosens up the most.
    I ordered 6 more from Napa, but they came with 5/8" coarse thread length and about 1 1/2" fine thread :rofl:
    2 questions......what else can I do to eliminate the problem?, and where to find the correct studs? (1" coarse, 1" fine with 1/2" shoulder in between)
    Thanks, Jim
     
  2. Dec 14, 2010
    EricM

    EricM Active Member

    Southern California
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  3. Dec 14, 2010
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I ordered studs for my front hubs from Enco http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM
    I believe they are meant for work hold-downs on machine tools.

    Maybe you could blast out the threaded holes with brake cleaner, to help the Locktite to stick to the hub and bolt.

    Bolts with drilled heads and safety wire is another possibility.
     
  4. Dec 14, 2010
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Grade 8 studs? Loc tite 'em in, and use nylock/ plastic stop nuts..With lock washers...
    Are the studs loosening up in the hub, or are the nuts backing off?
     
  5. Dec 14, 2010
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Could you chamfer the holes and use these conical units for a Toyota?
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Dec 14, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member

    K-Town Tenn.
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    studs are loosening in the hub,,,,,,,followed your recipe otherwise
    Jim
     
  7. Dec 14, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member

    K-Town Tenn.
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    not finding them there .....the ones I have are coarse thread on one side and fine on the other........5/16" by 2 3/8"........one inch thread each side with 3/8" shoulder in the middle
    Jim
     
  8. Dec 14, 2010
    xtrm4xjp

    xtrm4xjp Member

    Kenosha, WI
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    McMaster Part Number: 90281A112 1.79 each

    There not exactly what your looking for but should work (course thread on both ends). Personally I prefer to have the course thread in the location its at, less likely to get dirt in the threads causing the nuts to gaul and strip. Otherwise, the guys at napa should be able to pull out there dorman book (or what ever Napa uses) and order up what ever you need.
     
  9. Dec 14, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member

    K-Town Tenn.
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    thanks I'll look at them
    Jim
     
  10. Dec 15, 2010
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Jim, check the threads in the hub very close for looseness or damage. Run a bottoming tap, not a tapered/threading tap down them to clean them out and straighten the threads. You can also use the tap to check the condition of the threads. If the tap is even slightly loose when threaded in you have damaged holes. It shouldn't be hard to thread the tap in but it shouldn't be loose at all.

    I've found that when the studs come loose like this and they've been thread locked in it's usually the holes had some debris or oil in them or the holes or threads are damaged.
    Using some spray brake cleaner in the holes after running the tap down the holes and making sure ALL the debris is out may fix your problem. I did mine probably 12 years ago and only had one stud loosen in that time and that was 'cause I didn't get the hole clean enough and the stud oil free on installation. I've run into customer rigs though where they were constantly coming loose. I checked these things and generally fixed the problem.

    Did you use grade 8 studs? Is it possible the studs were weaker versions that possibly stretched allowing everything to loosen up?

    One other thing, you say you are using 5/16" diameter studs? They should be 3/8" nc.....
     
  11. Dec 15, 2010
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    I was having alot of problems with my studs , problem was in the studs not the nuts .
    I finally soaked the hubs and got them totally grease free. I ran a tap in them to clean up the threads and then used red locktight and grade 5 studs ,not 8 , felt 5s will bend and 8s will just snap. NAPA had them . on the nut side I went warn nut lock tabs and nylock nuts so far no problems , ,,,the way I drive,,, I check them all the time . I will definatly look into the toyota stuff ,THAT looks like a positive lock.
     
  12. Dec 15, 2010
    EricM

    EricM Active Member

    Southern California
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    Steve, did you find a source for the warn nut lock tabs, or did you already have them?
     
  13. Dec 15, 2010
    lamar

    lamar Member

    greenville sc
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    Herm the overdrive guy, has the tabs, plus all the gaskets.
     
  14. Dec 15, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member

    K-Town Tenn.
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    removed the broken studs this morning.....2 came out alright with a easy-out, 1 I had to drill progressively bigger and remove in pieces :(.
    Gonna straighten and clean out the threads in a bit then install the new studs
    I'm just going to use the studs I got at Napa and cut down the length to suit.
    Thanks for the help all :beer:
    Jim
     
  15. Dec 15, 2010
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    I had them ,and I was at a junkyard and pullrd more off a powerwagon.only problem with them is you can't take the front drums off because it is too close , my brakes are ok so I'm not in there very often.I think Nickmil had a source though.
     
  16. Dec 15, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member

    K-Town Tenn.
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    here's what was left of the hardware........one complete stud and two broken, along with the pieces I used the easy-out to pull[​IMG]
    and here it is put back together after chasing and cleaning the threads[​IMG]
    just have to put it back together
    Jim
     
  17. Dec 16, 2010
    Corveeper

    Corveeper Member

    Chanute, Kansas
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    Man, do I ever feel your pain.
    I finally gave up on studs and drilled bolt heads for safety wire.
    So far so good.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Dec 16, 2010
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Another question, can't tell from the pic. Is the shank of the stud, the unthreaded portion what the hub bolt holes are riding against or is the body of the locking hub center on the threads? If the threads, that could be part of your problem. The hub body will twist, doesn't matter how tight you make the fasteners, it will move some. By having the hub body move against the threads it weakens the stud allowing it to shear. By having the solid shank down in the threaded hole and against the hub body it creates much more shear strength.
    I'll have to check and see if I can still get the lock tabs. May have some at the shop.
     
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