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Rebuild For "miles"

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Jw60, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. Dec 26, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I tinkered on my filter a little. It needs one more hole drilled and tapped but I wasn't set at the time on where I wanted to drill the return from tbi.

    [​IMG]20211223_195940 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    The right most barb will feed the TBI pump.
    The left barb will vent air to the top of the tank.
    The tapped hole will be the inlet from the tank.
    And not visible is the return from TBI. (It will be drilled into the deck of the bracket opposite the inlet from tank)

    I've also started replacing the motor mounts using transfercase torqe arm donuts.
    They use a 1" hole and are 1.25" thick so I need to make a .75" spacer.

    Dual reservoir master cylinder is also in the works. I got the new master cylinder RPVs pulled. I needed fittings and such.


    The to-do list again(edited from May)

    1. I stripped some threads in the fuel tank for the pickup unit. Now it leaks out the filler on right hand turns and out the pickup on left hand turns.
    Done


    2. Engine oil leak (likely rear main or pan)
    Leak is from plug between pump and filter boss

    3. Dual reservoir master cylinder (leaning wilwood but need to find a mount)
    In process

    4. More electrical fun (camper has trailer brakes reverse lights and house battery)
    More to come

    5. Hand throttle on shifter or dash.
    Nothing started but will be a choke cable on dash

    6. Upgrade steering. I need something simple and reliable. I'm thinking manual Saginaw will be ideal. Too much stuff in the way for a ford box.
    Here is the box I'm looking at: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lsc-11034/make/jeep/model/j20/year/1975#
    Not started

    7. Rear axle (pinion noise) I don't know where this will go. To fix the pinion I might as well put a locker and full float on but all these projects at once will kill the budget.
    Locker acquired, next big project.

    8. Rear fuel tank, the camper will make fuel stops more frequent and I am really worried about missing the gas station.
    I'll get a gas can.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
    Andrew Theros, Rich M. and Fireball like this.
  2. Dec 29, 2021
    scott milliner

    scott milliner Master Fabricator

    Seattle Wa.
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    Explain to me how air gets into the filter?

    I've had experience on venting the under the seat tank. The tank ventilation should be plumbed with a Roll Over Vent Valve. Then the line should route higher than the tank and into a Carbon Canister.
     
  3. Dec 29, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    With the cj tank it is flat with no sump so I've been having issues when the tank sloshes. Typically this is in passenger up, high cheek pucker or sharp right hand turns. Fuel sloshes away from the typical carburetor pickup tube and it dies quickly as the pump starts to pull air into the fuel injection system.

    My vent is on the filler neck over the tank and through the floor. The vent for the filter will run to the tank body. The purpose of using a large filter and extending the outlet tube within the filter is to allow the liquid level to fluctuate without affecting the tbi supply. If it does not have a way for air to escape the filter then I'll have to manually vent the air out like water will need to be drained from the bottom.

    Main goal is to have a 10 gal tank that pumps down to empty without issues with angles.
    I also have a pickup tube that runs to the driver side of the tank internally. If I see the need I can put the 12v carb fuel pump on that with the mechanical on the typical carburetor pickup then have both feed the mercruiser filter assembly with overflow actively exiting the proposed vent to tank basically replicating a dry sump oil system.

    -trust me I'm a pilot (y)
    With a BS in aviation and a focus in Systems Design currently pounding my head on the desk engineering food service equipment because it's a stable well paying employment but is not exciting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
  4. Dec 29, 2021
    scott milliner

    scott milliner Master Fabricator

    Seattle Wa.
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    How about this crazy idea?
    I see you have a big opening for the fuel pick up. How about drilling holes in the bottom sides of a metal can. With magnets, place the can on the bottom of the tank. This will hold the can in place. Then place your pickup tube in the can. That way fuel will stay in the can longer when you turn.
     
  5. Dec 29, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I like your thinking... you can even have the tbi return feed into the can so it feeds itself the excess.
    now instead of holes in the bottom of the can lets use a pump or two to keep the can overflowing from the rear two corners of the tank.
    Then to keep the fuel in the can when more sideways we put a lid on the can with a little hole in the middle so it doesn't just spill out of the can when sideways.

    let's put the can under the tank.... the "filter" is actually the can and the remote filter adapter is a lid with a small hole for overflow (vent) effectively the same as an internal baffle like we add to oil pan.

    So this filter is really a no cut fuel sump, I'll gravity feed to start but can use the pumps from the carburetor if needed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
    dozerjim likes this.
  6. Jan 16, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I finally got to sit down at the kitchen table and set the fittings. All that remains is extending the pickup tube into the bottom of the filter and mounting the assembly under the fuel tank.

    [​IMG]20220115_230418 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    I decided I will first try a gravity feed from the typical tank outlet to the (mechanical) inlet before going to the engine and back.

    When I swapped to tbi i put the obround cutout and cover on my under seat tank. Initially it leaked and so I replaced it with a 7ga plate and backer which is thick enough with gaskets and sealant but I have no desire to break the seal by opening it up again. The cover has three fittings, a pickup, return, and vent. The electric pump is just a FLAPS special that used to prime the carb (5psi or so) it will be repurposed to pull from the pickup tube in this cover which could have the tube routed to the driver side rear corner of the tank. The return on the cover plate has a tube halfway down the tank with a small orifice drilled in the top of the tube on the inside of the cover plate. which will be used as the return from the filter assembly (the orifice should allow air to naturally escape with fuel covering the bottom of the tube) The vent on the cover plate terminates just inside the cover plate and will be tied to an additional vent fitting on the filler neck. Both of those tubes will run up to the top of the wheelhouse to a tee which will have the main vent line leading outside the body.

    All together this should provide gravity feed under normal conditions to the 14psi tbi pump. Gravity feed when the vehicle is laying on the passenger side. Electric pump for when the vehicle is laying on the driver side (normally venting liquid out the filler neck).
    With the two vent locations I will have open vent lines for all three of these states.
    Down hill obstacles on a low tank may be an issue but the volume of the filter should sustain the motor several minutes at idle (I plan to test idle time). I don't want the vehicle running when inverted so starving for fuel there is not an issue and the filter assembly should flow out the vent and air enter the gravity line rather quickly.

    Hopefully once this is in place I can explain the system better. I'm a little over budget with the brass fittings and I splurged on a filter with drain but I'm at about $65.

    *Edit*
    Here is the extended pickup tube (3/8 pipe) inside the filter nipple

    [​IMG]20220212_170757 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2022
    dozerjim likes this.
  7. Feb 6, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Plowed the drive with the Jeep mostly because I could.

    Now It might sound like either I drive on some extreme angles for the fuel starvation issue. Truth is this is all it takes to stall out and not be able to start again. Windshield is set back 15° if I recall so this might be a 10° slope and it would likely be down to two gallons in the tank but with a 10 gal tank it's a pain. The old carburetor wouldn't even notice this transition but the tbi is dead in the water once the pump finds air. The filter/reserve will let me power thru a transition like this. Having a second pickup tube running to the opposite corner of the tank with a cube pump will essentially create a dry sump fuel tank with a full 10 gallon usable fuel capacity.

    [​IMG]20220205_160119 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
     
  8. Mar 8, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I have the new filter installed, seems like my in line fuel pump is quieter which is a good omen. Some minor wetness on a fitting and the vent line route needs cleaned up (I'll get pictures when it's cleaned up)

    Next up is the 19 spline spartan locker install on the rear 44. I've ordered a fresh pinion seal and lube locker style gasket.
    I this is going to be done at a friend's house who happens to have a lift... he just uses it for oil changes and basic stuff so I will need to bring all the tools, parts, and consumables.
    I plan on pulling the shafts, inspecting bearings, slap in the locker.

    If it all looks good I'll torque it up and look the other way. If it all looks bad I'll torque it up and save up for a full rebuild of the axle.

    Oh and task 8: I bought a plastic scepter Jerry can, it's slow to pour but a new spout will help and overall I'm happy (even though gas cans are over priced)
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
    Buildflycrash likes this.
  9. Mar 15, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Pulling the wheels and calipers for some rear axle TLC.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Apr 5, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I got the spartan locker in the carrier today. Currently darker than I want it to be when working under vehicles outside.

    [​IMG]20220405_004434 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    I didn't even forget the spacer...
    [​IMG]20220405_001902 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    Looking at the ring gear it's apparent it got hot when flat towing home a few years ago. The coast side isn't well. The ring, pinion, and bearings will need replaced in the future. Luckily I have 4.27's for the sm465 to have the "right" splits to match what I use of the current t-90 and overdrive with 5.38's
     
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  11. Apr 16, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    The rear axle is all back together. The gears are stupid loud at 75mph. I like the locker, it's not noticeable at this point but sure does help the transfercase e-brake by not letting the wheels slip.

    Today I was able to take the hard top off. I was by myself so no pictures. I'm lucky to not throw out my back.

    Then I pressure washed the tar out of it.
    The old tapped rear axle vent now has a brass plug. I patched some missing sections of floorboard and should have pulled the transfercase breather but didn't have a vehicle to run to the store with..
    My frame mounted single master cylinder already has a fitting for a remote breather. I have the dual reservoir master cylinder but will wait till this season is over. I think my next little project will be pulling all the vents up to the top of the cowl or intake.

    I'ld like to be up to my eyeballs before the jeep has issues swimming but that's a little more difficult with the TBI.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
  12. Apr 25, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Updating the list:

    1. Engine oil leak (likely rear main or pan)
    Leak is from plug between pump and filter boss

    2. Dual reservoir master cylinder (stock drum/drum split reservoir with residual pressure valves removed and remote filler)
    In process

    3.Electrical fun (popup camper has trailer brakes reverse lights and house battery)
    Hoping to move the rear chassis wires to inside the tub with trailer brake controller pigtail and reverse pigtail.

    4. Hand throttle on shifter or dash.
    Nothing started but will be a choke cable on dash pulling up on a throttle stop.

    5. Upgrade steering. I need something simple and reliable. I'm thinking manual Saginaw will be ideal. Too much stuff in the way for a ford box.
    Here is the box I'm looking at: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lsc-11034/make/jeep/model/j20/year/1975#
    Not started

    6. Rear axle (pinion noise) I don't know where this will go. To fix the pinion I might as well put a locker and full float on but all these projects at once will kill the budget.
    Done, ring and pinion are shot. I'll circle back to this in a few years.

    7. Replace muffler

    8. Remove excess leaf from front, make low profile u-bolt plates.

    9. Fix smashed rear corner (darn rock)

    Edit for additional items mentioned in another thread:

    10. Motor mounts (done but might need adjustment)

    11. non bald tires

    12. Air source

    13. Rear traction aid (done)

    14. Front traction aid

    15. Weather enclosure for kids. (High priority per spouse)

    16. Fuel filter vent and electric "scavenge" pump
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2022
    Fireball likes this.
  13. Apr 25, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    After testing on the trail i have some adjustments to make on the boat filter.

    Currently my vent tube is not a direct shot upwards, it has a low spot that is making it harder for trapped air to escape.
    My plan is to just re-route the vent tubing so it can breathe at greater angles.
    I still have the "brick" fuel pump I used with the carburetor, I might go ahead and hook that up.

    The steering on this thing is terrible. Worn out Ross box that is too close to the exhaust.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
  14. Apr 26, 2022
    cj2atruck

    cj2atruck Member

    Spokane, WA
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    "The gears are stupid loud at 75mph. "

    Is this noise from your rear end? Shouldn't be loud. Transfer case noise is more normal on a D18 unless you have swapped to tapered bearing kit on the intermediate gear.
     
  15. Apr 26, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    There's an ongoing investigation since the ebrake assembly required disassemble before wheeling Saturday. I'll need to drive it before reassembly. Regardless the rear ring is destroyed on the coast side, it was flat towed a little too far before checking fluid level and now there is a lot of backlash between the gears.

    The transfercase is also louder than it used to be, it's a little different tone. the intermediate bore is worn out so I'll be doing the tapered bearings sooner than later.

    With the rear driveshaft removed due to the e-brake issue I went from 13.9mpg to 16mpg flat towed.
     
  16. Apr 28, 2022
    cj2atruck

    cj2atruck Member

    Spokane, WA
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    Flat towing without lube will definitely cause issues...
     
  17. Jun 19, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I got to take the old mule out to a friend's house today where he has a walking trail. It's likely been 2 years since I was there with the jeep.
    Last time it overheated big time just from the low speed "poking around" weaving through the trees in low first and idle.

    This time it overheated but we made it much farther and it really performed well overall. I now have the rear locker, heavy diff covers, fan shroud, tbi, marine fuel filter/surge tank, overdrive accessory pulleys. I feel like I need to add an engine oil cooler and maybe have a heater core that just dumps heat outside the passenger compartment.
    The other major issue I have is the original steering box is just worn out from the years of snow plowing. I also still have that dual reservoir master cylinder to install.
     
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  18. Jun 19, 2022
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Hello Joe , Do you have Electric Fans installed ? If not ......That would be your Fix, IMO.
     
  19. Jun 19, 2022
    homersdog

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    I think you need to find a later grill, 70 or 71, that has room to mount the larger radiator used on the later V6's. Your radiator looks too small for the 4.3. I'm just shooting from the hip, but looking at the top view in post #124 of this thread, that radiator looks too small.
     
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  20. Jun 19, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Yes I'm still running this copper radiator for a 66 v8 Mustang. I know this is the go-to and I think I have a dead tube or two from hateful sticks.
    I haven't altered the sheetmetal to fit the motor yet so I'll avoid a larger physical radiator and I could do an aluminum radiator if i have to but I was really pushing it literally at idle forcing the tbi to work thru creeks and negotiations with trees. A few ideas I have that won't cost much are to have thermostatic switches trigger the high idle on the TBI. I was doing all this on the 650rpm base idle and having it open up to the highest idle would help pull air and pump coolant.
    Another note is I did not have the overflow tank on this trip. I wanted to make a larger tank and took the old overflow off.
    Fwiw the TBI did not throw any codes.

    [​IMG]20210117_170757 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    [​IMG]20210117_170811 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    [​IMG]
     
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