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Here's A Beaut From Bay Area, California... Ready To Impress!

Discussion in 'eBay, FB Marketplace and Craigslist' started by Eric, Jul 25, 2022.

  1. Jul 28, 2022
    Matt With Hat

    Matt With Hat New Member

    Orinda, CA 94563
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    Hi, much of the work had to be redone as 1st phase of restoration was not done professionally "pls refer to listing it details the scope" Paint should be redone! Thanks Matt
     
  2. Jul 28, 2022
    Matt With Hat

    Matt With Hat New Member

    Orinda, CA 94563
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    Hi, salvaged title only because of scarcity and only aprox 15 others 462's ever been authenticated, mostly by Keith and team. Thanks, Matt
     
  3. Jul 28, 2022
    Matt With Hat

    Matt With Hat New Member

    Orinda, CA 94563
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    Hi, the mechanical restoration was skillfully done. The restoration got expensive because most of the early work had to be redone and in addition parts, materials, specialists for this jeep are expensive. Cosmetic/ paint was completed DYI local guys that did not do a quality shop job. If I kept her i would have repainted using a top shop. Crazy as it sounds the 25k she is listed for now is significant loss. Thanks, Matt
     
  4. Jul 28, 2022
    Zoomer

    Zoomer eJeeper (walking) 2020 Sponsor

    Minnesota
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    What's your month of manufacture, and does your frame serial number match the body tag?
     
  5. Jul 28, 2022
    fctex

    fctex Sponsor

    san antonio texas
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    VIN 8305017359505. It was built on or around May 29,1969.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2022
  6. Jul 28, 2022
    Zoomer

    Zoomer eJeeper (walking) 2020 Sponsor

    Minnesota
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    Hmmmm there is a batch of Renegade I's here built October 1969. Did they overlap the 462 and Renegade I?
     
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  7. Jul 29, 2022
    fctex

    fctex Sponsor

    san antonio texas
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    Hi guys, This CJ5 is truely a "462". It is one of 16 I have documented in the past 20+ years. I spoke with the previous owners family probably a year before Matt purchased it. I still have all the pictures from 2019 of this "462" that were sent to me by the owners family. It does have some non original parts on it such as rollbar, spare tire carrier and missing parts such as the steps and KH wheels. But it does have the most telling parts, dual resistors, wire harness for the amp and oil gauge, front frame horn boxing, color red, spring packs, oil pan skid plate, and tapered axle. The vin has it falling at the end of May which is in the time frame as well. It is also between the first and last one built that we know of. I have worked with Matt over the past 2 years and it's been a labor of love for him. He was hoping to build it for his 16 year old daughter to enjoy but obviously that didn't work out. It's not a 100% correct restoration to original but a well put-together and thought out build. Keith
     
  8. Jul 29, 2022
    fctex

    fctex Sponsor

    san antonio texas
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    Sorry, I changed the date from October to May 29, 1969.
     
  9. Jul 29, 2022
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Do you have any pictures of the jeep prior to restoration?

    Looking at this spread sheet compiled by members here, https://jeepwillysworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Vehicle_Indentification.pdf
    There are confirmed build dates in august that start with 360577. Roughly how many jeeps were built each day back then? If a line were on a straight CJ5 run that would mean they were putting out about 26-27 jeeps per day during the Months of June and July.
    Has the engine code been verified to have been manufactured in either 68-69? Engines get swapped all the time. I disassembled a 67 with the same pan/skid plate.
    I respect the research and documentation that you have put into these old jeeps. There are so many missing items on this jeep, there needs to be full documentation in order to verify the validity of the 462 claim. If the jeep were truly a rare model and worth a large amount of $$, why wouldn't there be a stronger attempt at making it resemble the way it was manufactured.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2022
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  10. Jul 29, 2022
    fctex

    fctex Sponsor

    san antonio texas
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    The first cj built in August of 1969 was VIN# 360351. That was a 1970 model. Obviously Matt is not as a purist as others on here are. To each their own. I agree about adding parts to a jeep such as a skid plate but I have never seen anybody add a factory wire harness to use 6 volt gauges in a 12 volt jeep. It "had" such a harness. It was painted rootbeer brown on the outside but interior, under the hood and under the vehicle were red. It has factory springs, oil pan and the correct boxed frame horns. Tapered axle and a correct red reflector with a gasket on passenger rear qtr. panel. Only 462 models had a reflector on the passenger side, all others had a spare tire carrier. It has a locker tag on rear differential but did not see what gear ratio, 3.73 or 4.88. Most of these items were available over the counter except the specific gauges and wire harness. I have been told those 2 items were not available from the dealer until the 70 models were introduced. Probably because of the Renegade l model. They were basically the same model except for striping, sun visors, hubcaps and colors. Not all Renegades have the horn frame boxing. I own 2 70 Renegade l's, 3 Renegade ll's and only one has the box framing. All 3 462"s have the boxing and every"462" I have documented has had it including Matts.The "462" was only available in 226 President Red but interior of Charcoal, Red or Rawhide. One of mine has the red and white stripe buckets, one has the charcoal stripe and another has a red pleated 2/3-1/3 front seat. There is no guarantee Matts is a "462" but it checked everyone of my boxes. Matt is a great guy and has added to CJ5 family. The most documented "462" is in Nashville and is a one family owned that includes the window sticker that states it as a "462" model, and it has the same spare tire carrier as Matts. Keith
     
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  11. Jul 30, 2022
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I think it’s really cool that your able to document the items on this Jeep. I also find the Jeep very attractive and would drive it any day.
    My problem lies in the lack of factory parts that make it a “462”. In its current condition it’s just a regular CJ5 with snow plow springs up front and oil pressure/amp gauges. Literally nothing else on it is better than many other factory equipped CJ5’s.
    The Jeep would be rare if it had all the factory equipment…. And at that point it would be worth the asking price. The missing “462” parts are not that hard to find or reproduce. The salvage title is more disturbing. No vehicle has ever received a salvage title because it was rare. If it was wrecked and declared salvage, then the tub was replaced because of damage…. Then it’s a regular old CJ5 with a swapped tub with a “462” dash, wiring and frame. What’s the engine build date code?
    We are currently in a world of fake barn finds, clones and imposters… Let’s put it this way.
    If you had a Hemi Cuda…. But you installed a LS engine and 3/4 of the parts that made the car a special Cuda were missing….. it’s not a Hemi Cuda any more…. It’s a run of the mill restomod Plymouth Barracuda and not worth anything even close to a factory representation of a Hemi Cuda. Oldsmobile 442 was a Cutlas with designated upgrades. 4 speed, 4 barrel and 2 doors. That’s what separated it from the run of the mill cars. Take a 442 and swap in a LS and automatic trans…… whatcha got then?
    Send the sellers Jeep to auction along side a properly restored “462” Jeep. The sellers Jeep might bring 1/2 the money of the restored Jeep. No one cares how much money someone spent on a vehicle. Its quite widely known that it’s cheaper to buy than build. That is demonstrated at every collector car auction.
    I’m no Jeep pureist….. my Jeep is a mishmash of parts from Kaiser, Ford, Chevy and Chrysler….1969 to 1995. I am annoyed with the misleading statements by the seller.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
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  12. Jul 30, 2022
    Zoomer

    Zoomer eJeeper (walking) 2020 Sponsor

    Minnesota
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    Fctex, have you checked out the one on Hemmings linked earlier in this thread? They claim to be the original owner of theirs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
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  13. Jul 31, 2022
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    You Sick B@$*@&# !
     
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  14. Jul 31, 2022
    W2SNO

    W2SNO New Member

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    As for the 462 article in Hemmings, yeah, it was an original.
    Now it's shiny.
    Original body replaced with POS MD Juan Body,
    Notice the front fenders hung at the wrong height? And the Serial Plates in the wrong location?
    Did I mention it's Shiny?
     
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  15. Jul 31, 2022
    Zoomer

    Zoomer eJeeper (walking) 2020 Sponsor

    Minnesota
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    I mentioned the Hemmings one as it's not too often you can talk to the original owner of a 50+ year old unique Jeep. Kind of like Wyomike we have here on the forum and the '71 Renegade II he purchased new. It looks like they also painted the windshield frame body color, not sure why though. Is the oil pressure gauge correct with the SW logo on it? Renegade's don't have the logo.

    Not sure what's original to a 462, but it's the tid-bits that differentiate it from a standard cj5. I think some are questioning how many original parts can be missing or replaced with others to still qualify as unique.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2022
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  16. Jul 31, 2022
    fctex

    fctex Sponsor

    san antonio texas
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    Yes, I contacted Chuck in March after reading the article. In this pic you can see the "462" sticker on the rear qtr panel and he believes he still has it pressed flat in a book.
     
  17. Jul 31, 2022
    fctex

    fctex Sponsor

    san antonio texas
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    Zimmer, The body shop made him feel his tub was to far gone for repair. I personally would have repaired it or had replaced the body with a donor. Again, Chuck is not a purist and is happy with the way his CJ turned out. I believe his gauges have been replaced at some time and the original "462" gauges did not have the SW on them. They were the same as the Renegades. The only person I know who can determine the authenticity of any ecj5 or part is W2SNO. He has the jeep bible and hopefully he will share it with everyone in the future. I personally think he should talk to the University of Toledo to help with the preservation of our Jeeps and many other makes of Jeeps. My mind was blown when I saw the millions of items from micro film on his laptop. He has the information that would tell us the date every jeep rolled off the assembly line, options, a blue print of every part including nuts bolts n washers. He shared with me the dealer order form he pulled off of a film 2 years before the Dispatcher wrote the article. W2SNO is the reason we know the "462" was not a show vehicle or a celebrity gimmick (Johnny Cash) but an actual production Jeep.
     
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  18. Aug 1, 2022
    fctex

    fctex Sponsor

    san antonio texas
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    To me a Hemi Cuda is not the same as a Cuda with a Hemi. A Hemi Cuda with an LS motor is just that. A quick vin check will tell you whether are not it's the real deal. Matt's "462" is still a "462" it just doesnt have all the right equipment. Some parts like the swing out tire carrier, oil pan skid plate, proper SW gauges can be a pain to locate. Matt asked me about those items and I told him I had everything he needed but i lost my son in November of 2019 and dropped the ball. I promised him the 462 decals for the rear qtr panels as well. The ones in the Dispatcher are the ones I had made. A lot of things for me are different now and I guess that's why I am standing up for Matt. I know he wanted to purchase those things but he never wanted to bother me. I called him today and we worked out a deal to ship him what he needs. He can pass them on to the next owner or install them. As far as a salvage title goes, i purchased a 71 Renegade ll with a 4 speed in Sierra Blue with a salvaged title because it was flooded in Davenport Iowa. No body damaged it just sat under water "down by the river." I agree about buying is cheaper than building, and I like to know what the previous owner payed for things on the Jeep. I like to think I'm more of a purist, but I purchased a 1949 Power Wagon truck and am putting a 360 magnum with a 5 speed with power brakes and steering. I'm sure there are some PW guys pissed at me too but i want to drive it down the hiway with the AC on! I really appreciate your passion and you have one of the best built CJ's on the forum. It's obvious you put alot of effort in building a great rig for the trail, hunting out of or wheeling down the freeway. Keith
     
  19. Aug 1, 2022
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I am sorry to hear about your son. It would be great to see this jeep with the original parts installed, 462 decals included! Cool uncommon Jeep history would be a great conversation piece at shows. Your Power Wagon build sounds like its going to be a great runner. Please share it with us here as we all appreciate side projects!
    Thank you for the compliments,
    Kyle
     
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  20. Aug 1, 2022
    W2SNO

    W2SNO New Member

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    Keith,

    I appreciate your ideas for the preservation of Jeep History.
    The microfilm you referenced was 161,403 scans of individual 3m 16mm film frames (1 page per scan) in cassettes.
    I'll never forget that number since I paid 8 cents a frame to have it scanned.
    The owner has plans to donate it to a private museum.

    I've had the same employer for 41 years now, and as I hope to retire in a few years, I have plans for that too.
    I hope to support the Jeep museum in Toledo, but their focus is a bit different than mine.
    I am afilliated with a Private 501C3 museum with 300 cars, in a 120,000 sq foot building. I am helping them build a Jeep exhibit.
    When the papers are signed, we will have about 14 Historic Jeeps, and have open negotiations to be a repository for donations of Jeep records. Basically every sheet of paper I'm aware of pertaining to Jeep would be in one place along with the ability to scan and share.

    This is a 3 year plan.
     
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