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Question About Vin

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Dan Lockwood, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. Sep 20, 2021
    Dan Lockwood

    Dan Lockwood New Member

    Mid-Michigan
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    Hi all, New here and first tech post.

    I just purchased a '67 CJ-5 from a friend that's had it a couple decades and never really drove it when he got it, just bopped around the yard and then put it in the pole barn. It's pretty much rust free with a great frame.

    Here's the VIN tag.

    upload_2021-9-20_10-29-58.jpeg

    Just wondering if this is a '67. He had the title, just haven't seen it yet. It has the added side marker front fender lights along with large upper mounted tail lights. I think this was mandated for '67 vehicles, all makes. It's a twin stick transfer case 3-speed on the floor.

    It looks like there is a C stamped at the end of the sequential number and something after the C1, maybe a 4?

    It has the two piece keyed/splined rear axles. Are there stronger one piece axles that can be retrofitted to that housing or would I just upgrade to different stronger Dana axle assembly? I plan on keeping the Hurricane 4-cyl for a while. Is the 3-speed a synchro first gear?

    Any help in knowing what I have would be greatly appreciated...

    Dan
     
  2. Sep 20, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Is that a bullet hole?
     
  3. Sep 20, 2021
    boopiejones

    boopiejones I can’t drive 55

    California east bay
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    It looks to be manufactured in may of 1967.

    The 4 after the C1 indicates it was a 134 engine without emissions control. 5 would be with emissions control. 6/7 would be 225 without/with emissions.
    Not sure what the C after the sequential number means.

    https://jeepwillysworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Vehicle_Indentification.pdf

    83 - cj5
    05 - open body
    C - Canadian built
    1 - left hand drive
    4 - f4 134 engine without emissions
    231010 - may 1967
     
  4. Sep 20, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    "It has the added side marker front fender lights along with large upper mounted tail lights. I think this was mandated for '67 vehicles"

    Neither of the two 67 CJ5s I own have side marker lights or those tail lights. I think those came after Kaiser sold-out to AMC. Both of my 67s are standard CJ5s with the F-134 engine, and both had round tail lights mounted low on the body.

    The T90 transmission used in the 67 Standard CJ5 is not synchronized in first gear.

    The two piece, tapered axle and hub, used in the Dana 44 and earlier the Dana 41 are plenty strong enough for a four cylinder Jeep provided the hubs are properly installed.

    Flanged axle offset Dana 44s were only available one or two years (1971, maybe into part of 1972). They are scarce. The later AMC rear axles are the weakest axles used in Jeeps in my opinion and should be avoided. The older Dana 44 you probably have could be upgraded to use one piece flanged axles, but it isn't worth the cost in my opinion.

    I have put the older two piece axles through some hard use without ever having a failure, but I know others have broken them, but some people wheel so hard they break even the strongest axles.

    The intense use of your Jeep might indicate an upgrade, but unless you plan on hard core trail riding, you would probably be fine with what you have.
     
  5. Sep 20, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Your CJ5 has had some modifications through the years. It is likely a late '67 from the serial number, but could be titled as a '68. Those front fenders with the side marker lights have been replaced. The original fenders had no provisions for those lights until '70 or '71? The tail lights were always round and mounted near the lower edge of the rear body panel until well into the AMC production. The twin stick transfer case shifter in not original either. By around '66, it was a single stick for regular CJ5's. The Tuxedo Parks got the single stick in '64.
    The two-piece rear D44 is plenty strong. I used and abused mine, including 20 years with V8 power, and never broke it.
    Enjoy your Jeep for what it is.
    -Donny
     
  6. Sep 20, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    Keys5a,

    I am not so sure about that. I have two 67 CJ5 standards, both have the dual stick Dana 18. I know the full history of one of these Jeeps and know it is a 100% stock unmolested Jeep. I have seen the single stick in the earlier Tuxedo Park version, but have never encountered it in a 67 or earlier standard CJ5.
     
  7. Sep 20, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Interesting. I've had a couple '65/'66, and a '69, all F134 with single sticks. I have also had several mid/late '60's with twin sticks. I just assumed they were converted over sometime in their history. Your going to make me look through some vintage brochures if I have them.
    -Donny
     
  8. Sep 20, 2021
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    '69 did come with the single stick, mine had that.
     
  9. Sep 20, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    It is interesting to try to nail this stuff down.

    I have more experience with flat fender Jeeps than I do with CJ5s, so I am certainly no expert on the history of them, but I am almost certain the 67 I do know the history of came stock with that twin stick TC.

    It was traded in to a car dealer in 1968 and was used as a tender on that dealer's used car lot until 1979 when it was parked in a storage barn and not touched until I bought it from the estate. The dealership kept all service records on the Jeep and I was given the folder by the son of the car dealer. Nothing was done to it during the 11 years it was used other than installing a push bar, adding a "Safti-Boost" system, and routine maintenance.

    I only know the history of the other 67 I have back to 1977 when my cousin bought it. It too has a twin stick transfer case, but it had an engine conversion to the 225 V6 before my cousin bought it, but it was definately not an original "Dauntless" Jeep. I have no way to know what else was done to it the ten years prior to my cousin buying it.
     
    Glenn likes this.
  10. Sep 21, 2021
    kenb

    kenb Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

    Detroit
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    Could the single stick have been an upgrade option for the F head?
     
  11. Sep 21, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    Few would consider that an "upgrade". In fact a common aftermarket upgrade is converting from single stick to dual stick.

    From what I can find the single stick D18 was specific to the Dauntless powered Jeeps beginning in 1965, and based on one comment above may have actually began with 1964 "Tuxedo Park" models. It had a few other differences as compared to the D18 used in the standard CJ5 with the F-134. I have found no reference to this transfer case being used, or offered, in the four cylinder CJ5, but just because I have not found it doesn't mean a lot. I am still researching the topic.
     
  12. Sep 21, 2021
    Dan Lockwood

    Dan Lockwood New Member

    Mid-Michigan
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    I appreciate all the information. This is going to be a fun project to get back on the road.

    I've been looking around to see what "might" have been the stock/standard axle ratio. Some say 4.88 others 5.13. I have the Hurricane F-134 motor.

    I'm just a bundle of questions, sorry? I see that the two piece rear axles are a possible weak link in the driveline. Some say for the F-134 that the two piece are "good enough" while others say to go to the one piece flanged axle.

    Are there axles that replace the tapered axle bearings as well as getting me a one piece axle without having to replace the housing? I read that all diffs were the same for one piece and two piece axles. Am I correct on any of the above? :)

    Thanks again very much, Dan!
     
  13. Sep 22, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Adding some more info to the single lever vs two lever transfer case thing. My '69 came with an owner's manual. It doesn't list a model year but the copyright date is 1967 which would imply it was for a 1968 model year Jeep. I'm not sure if Jeep used the same owner's manual for early '69 Jeeps or if the manual ended up with the Jeep at a later date.

    The manual shows both single and twin lever transfer cases. Sadly it doesn't say anything about which Jeeps have which:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I also have a 1971 owner's manual that *only* lists the single lever transfer case.

    If I were to guess, all the large hole V6 transfer cases were single lever and they used small hole double lever cases on F134 Jeeps until they ran out of stock.

    Do the last of the 4 cylinder Jeeps have large hole cases or were those only on V6s?
     
  14. Sep 22, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Generally no. The newer one-piece axles are not compatible with the older tapered axle housings. I have seen reference to folks having Dutchman (Dutchman Replacement and Custom Axle Shafts & Rear Ends | Dutchman Axles) make custom ones to fit. Dutchman probably still has the drawings but it's likely pricey.

    Generally people switch to the hard to find 70/71 one piece housing/axles or they convert to full floating axles. Full float conversions used to be available from Warn, but are now available from Herm the Overdrive Guy (Herm The Overdrive Guy | Shift into High Gear!).
     
  15. Sep 22, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Who says 4.88 or 5.13? Not on this site, I'd think. The V6-equipped Jeeps were 3.73 standard, 4.88 optional. The F134 Jeeps have 5.38 axles, or later 4.27 axles. I don't recall the exact year change or availability for 4.27s, but 5.38s seem most common, with 4.27 well represented.

    Look at the Jeep - the vehicle is its own best reference. The axles will have a tag from the factory with the Jeep PN, ratio, and tooth counts. Lacking that, the tooth count is stamped into the edge of the ring gear, ie "41 11" is 41/11 = 3.73.

    With the F134, a rear axle swap would be way down my list.
     
  16. Sep 22, 2021
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
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    The “C” on the end is indented while the other numbers are raised. The “C14” is raised like the other numbers. I can not see Kaiser adding more numbers/letters to there Vin plates. The big question is, does the numbers on the title match the Vin plate. In Kentucky, you would not be able to register that Jeep if they do not match. I think the Vin plate has been tampered with.
     
  17. Sep 22, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Yes, the number stamped into the frame should match the sequential serial number part of the VIN.
    "231010"
     
  18. Sep 22, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    Just about anything on a Jeep can be "Upgraded", but just because something can be upgraded does not mean the upgrade is worth the effort or money.

    The tapered axles are plenty strong enough and so long as the hubs are installed correctly are not likely to ever be a problem with a four cylinder Jeep.

    Just be sure that when you do end up working on them you understand how to pull and re-install the hubs correctly. I have lost count of how many split hubs I have encountered due to improper installation.
     
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  19. Sep 24, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    For what its worth, the F134/column shift MKlV Tux's all had single sticks on small hole D18's.
    As far as what is shown in owners manuals, Jeep recycled the same photos for for years at a time. I have one dated in '65 ('66 model year) that still shows the battery box lid and mirror boss on the cowl.
    -Donny
     
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  20. Oct 3, 2021
    Dan Lockwood

    Dan Lockwood New Member

    Mid-Michigan
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    I've been reading tons lately while on vacation up in MI with nothing else to do... :)

    I want to thank you all for your valuable information! Greatly appreciated...

    I'm posting a few more pictures now that I have some sorted and cleaned up a bit. The more I look at them the more that seems wrong with them. Tail lights and front fenders for the most part. Although on the tail lights, I don't see any indication that they were ever down over the bumper where they were supposed to have been. The front fenders to the grill look a bit shaky as to the correct contour of the grill to the fender. Maybe the original fenders had a slightly different shape in that area, I'm sure that I don't know.

    Someone mentioned the hole in the firewall between the two identification plates and I believe that's where the lever for the plow hydraulics must have been run. It seems to be about the right area for a rod to be pushed back and forth through the firewall.

    IMG_3708.jpg
    IMG_3694.jpg
    IMG_3706.jpg
    IMG_3683.jpg
    IMG_3682.jpg
    IMG_3686.jpg
    IMG_3679.jpg
    IMG_3678.jpg
     
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