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Scout D44 Axles

Discussion in 'eBay, FB Marketplace and Craigslist' started by FinoCJ, Sep 6, 2021.

  1. Sep 6, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    I've heard Scout 44s could be a good swap for a wagon - although something about the caster of the knuckles is weird? Anyway, these popped up locally - probably never find them if I broke something and was looking. I have nowhere to put them and don't want to deal with an axle swap right now....but just asking....good swap option? FWIW - I would appreciate the 3.54 gears as well over the OEM 4.27 since I don't have an OD and the sm465 has a granny low.
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  2. Sep 6, 2021
    neohic

    neohic Gentleman Jeepist

    Woodland Park, CO
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    Those axles have about 0° of caster. They’re good axles if you take the time to cut and turn the inner C’s.
     
  3. Sep 7, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    The front can be used in Wagons if you cut and reposition the spring pads a few degrees (castor wedge pass side), or rework your front spring shackles to match the pivot points used on the Scout ll front frame. The rear end completes the swap.
    They are a near perfect width for Wagons, and are pretty rugged, especially compared to a Wagon's original D25. That one already has Lock o Matics up front. These are later models that already have the disc brakes too.
    -Donny
     
  4. Sep 7, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Don't know how valid this discussion is, but a thread on the binder forum on why IH axles have zero caster....seems that some discuss kingpin inclination parallel to the axle shaft was IH method instead of caster (which would be inclination of the kingpin perpendicular to the axle shaft - in other words, tipping the top of the kingpin rearward parallel to the frame rails).
    Caster, why?

    $800 seems like A LOT, not to mention the scope of an axle swap seems way big especially on a project that is not even close to being on the road. But, if keeping the current axles, then possible an OD or regear might be in the works, and that will cost just as much. For scout axles to bolt in, it sounds like moving the spring pads to match the willys frame width is needed (but that might be tricky on the passenger side with the pumpkin?), and when doing that, you can also add some caster in (at the expense of pinon angle etc, but I already accept that with the cj caster shims). hmmm....I really don't need this additional project right now....
     
  5. Sep 7, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
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    Keep in mind, solid axles are a limited commodity. Prices are only going to go up.
     
  6. Sep 7, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    From what I can gather, you can't really move the passenger front spring perch as its cast into the center pumpkin housing. But as the scout spring perches are wider than willys springs, the willys springs will still sit on the perch, just be offset inboard on the spring perch - thus requiring a new centering pin hole to be drilled. It took a bit for me to get why you say caster wedge passenger side - it can't be cut and re-welded since its built into the housing.

    So what about the driver side? Is it basically the same - the willys spring will ride offset to the inboard side on the spring perch? Its probably my unbalanced OCD, but if I have to use a caster wedge on the passenger side, I'd probably leave the driver side as is and use a wedge there too. And possibly consider paying a shop to cut and rotate the knuckles if absolutely necessary.

    How different is the scout rear compared to the willys rear?

    So what am I missing....this seems pretty straight forward...its never as straight forward as it seems....

    My budget is hammered right now (sbc comes back from the shop today and I owe the 2nd half payment)...$800 would be a huge expense (I've been very interested in the front D27 powerlock for sale but am hesitant to even drop $200 into jeep projects right now).....is it worth it? In theory, they could sit on the floor for awhile until needed. Maybe $500 cash offer could bring them home (and use the remaining $300 to buy off my wife with something nice)?
     
  7. Sep 7, 2021
    neohic

    neohic Gentleman Jeepist

    Woodland Park, CO
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    I’ve been told a few times that it had everything to do with the bias ply tires of the time. As the vehicle got up to speed the tires would elongate causing the needed caster. Companies still making lift components for Scouts still don’t take into consideration the lack of caster. Back when I was working at the four wheel shop I would do a cut/turn almost biweekly.
     
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  8. Sep 7, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    just to ask, ballpark cost for a shop to do such a job?
     
  9. Sep 7, 2021
    RATTYFLATTY

    RATTYFLATTY I think you need a little more throttle

    Central MN
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    Some info for those doing the pondering.
    What went on was a combination of where the front spring mounts ended up on the frame and given how tall the IH motors are. This made the front driveshaft pinon angle seem odd for the axle swapping world. This is why most common solution has been to put the spring mounts where they need to be(outboard most of the time). Make the pinon angle what you need it to be and cut and turn the inner "C" to the desired caster. The other issue that some times comes up is the fact IH used a pitman arm that had a larger center to center distance than everyone else. This makes tie rod to pitman-arm/bell-crank clearance problems show up sometimes.

    I did a few axle swaps years ago into wagons that were daily drivers. On one of them I know I used a Scout II rear and a 74-79 Wagoneer front with Ford spindles to keep the 5 on 5.5 wheels. I did a Saginaw power steering upgrade on it too. It had stock springs in it also. I have notes on this build somewhere, I'll look for them to see what I'm missing as I'm sure there is something.
     
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  10. Sep 7, 2021
    fhoehle

    fhoehle Sponsor

    Harford Township, PA
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    One of the reasons I was told for the little to no caster angle was steering ease with manual steering. They are good axles and parts are common. Balljoints are standard Dana 44 stuff. I prefer to use the outers off something else and the matching hubs/spindles stubshaft and such. To me, 800 seems high but I am not always associated with reality so it may not be unreasonable.
     
  11. Sep 7, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
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  12. Sep 7, 2021
    neohic

    neohic Gentleman Jeepist

    Woodland Park, CO
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    No idea. Pricing and front of the house was never my thing there. Not sure of any other shops that did this though. We’d get bare housings shipped to us somewhat frequently.

    If you end up pulling the trigger on this let me know. Even if it’s not right away, I can help you out.
     
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  13. Sep 7, 2021
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    They run about half that around here. Half a dozen listings on marketplace right now. Shipping would be a killer though...
     
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  14. Sep 8, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    I swapped Scout ll axles in a Wagon years ago. I still had the chassis from the Scout to use as a guide. The Scout chassis rises up really high at the front bumper end. On the Wagon, I ended up lowering the spring perch at the firewall end, and positioned the front spring perch near the top of the Wagon's chassis rail with a piece of pipe welded through the frame for the bushing. I used a short shackle up front where the spring almost rubbed the frame rail. It drove and handled well, but never measured the castor.
    The Scout ll spindle/knuckle uses 8 bolts rather than 6 bolts on almost everything else. Its stout!
    I can't comment on the price, but around these parts, they're getting hard to find. I still have 2 sets, but I have a couple Wagons.
    -Donny
     
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