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Fino's D27 Knuckle Stud Project

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 19, 2021.

  1. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Thought I would start a build thread here, then when its all done, can clean it up and add it to this thread...
    Knuckle studs...again

    Useful parts:
    1) Buttonhead bolts: 3/8"-24 thread, 1.25"long (McMaster-Carr 91255A647: McMaster-Carr)
    2) Kingpin Bearings (if choosing to replace at this time): Timken 11590 (bearing) and 11520 (race) - SET 61
    3) Knuckle oil seal set: Crown J0908226 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CWA-J0908226)
    4) Spot facing, counterbore bit:

    Example here is from the passenger side - first thing is to remove the knuckle....as the FSM says: requires removal of the hub and brake drum assembly, wheel bearings, axle shaft, spindle, steering tie rod, and steering knuckle.

    After removal of the wheel hub (and locking hub/drive flange etc), the heads of the 6 bolts to be replaced can be seen holding the brake backing plate on....
    [​IMG]

    FWIW, I have 11" bendix brakes here, but its the same for 10" or 9" etc. Removal of these bolts allows removal of the backing plate and then the spindle:
    [​IMG]

    With the spindle removed, the outer surface of the knuckle is exposed....the bolts thread into the knuckle, and its these threads that are weak and can fail.
    [​IMG]

    To remove the knuckle, a bit more work is needed...the axle shaft can be pulled out and set aside:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And then the steering TRE needs to be disconnected:
    [​IMG]

    Next, removal of the felt seal and retainer plates from the backside of the knuckle:
    [​IMG]

    And lastly, removal of the lower and upper kingpin bearing caps:
    [​IMG]

    The upper bearing will probably have shims....and the kingpin bearings fall out easily (especially the bottom one):
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
    Jw60 and Andrew Theros like this.
  2. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    I went ahead and cleaned up the knuckle a bit and chased all the threads:
    [​IMG]

    Here is the inside of the knuckle....the button head will sit against the inside of this knuckle...the inside surface where the button head will sit needs to be spot faced to make it flat and smooth:
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Aug 19, 2021
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    :watch:bet the drivers side goes faster :ninja:
     
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  4. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    OK - first question....the head of the bolt is larger than the raised area around the hole. When spot facing this area, its just to smooth out the casting bumps and make it flat, but not remove the entire raised area? I think in one of the previous discussion with Wheelie and maybe djbutler, making the diameter of the button head smaller was also part of their plan. I think a pic of the area before and after spot facing will be some of the most useful documentation I can make here....
     
  5. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Might depend on how many mosquitos are around...
    Just received a replacement driver knuckle from Dave, so clean that up just a bit, and hopefully spot face both the driver and passenger at the same time here soon....Trying to get an idea of how the spot facing is going to go.
     
    Rich M. likes this.
  6. Aug 19, 2021
    melvinm

    melvinm Member

    Arvada Co. 80003
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    I would replace the king pin bearing cap bolts with studs also.
     
  7. Aug 19, 2021
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    I know you have heard this before
    now would be the best time to replace the right knuckle
    I mean it's apart
     
  8. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    replace it with what?....Its perfectly good....you mean go to a 2-hole knuckle?
     
  9. Aug 19, 2021
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    yep :whistle:
     
  10. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    FWIW - Discussion of that here: Knuckle studs...again
     
  11. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Okay...been doing a bit of research...I added up at the top, the Timken bearing and race for D27 kingpin:
    bearing: 11590
    race: 11520
    SET 61
    Still looking for parts for the seal/backing ring combo and felt seal....

    As for my specific project....Here are the driver side kingpin bearings, caps and races....
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    it all looks fine to me (sorry last pics wasn't that great)....but I am always tempted to replace at least he bearing and race. Did want to verify that the bearings are a slip fit onto the cap posts and not pressed on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2021
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  12. Aug 19, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 WRPD855 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Mine was a Slip fit of inner race to post and a slight interference fit of the outer race.

    The kingpin bearings happen to be the same bearing as some Harley swing arms and those ironically are a little cheaper than Jeep parts.

    Yes your spot face is only to true up the surface and relieve the side of the casting a little, for the bolt head after it is ground down to 5/8"
    After the bolts are in with your brand of "never ever ever get loose" thread locker you grind the ball of the axle and the bolt heads that interfere.

    On mine two bolts per side are relieved to the bottom of the driver bore which is why you want the permanent thread locker. If it gets loose it'll be a pain.
     
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  13. Aug 19, 2021
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2021 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    As I recall......the the diameter of the spot face bit determines how much of the OD of the button head cap to grind off. The depth of my spot facing work was just enough for the bit to make full contact inside the knuckle. Not sure if that was the right way but I wanted to preserve as much material and factory threads as possible. I think, after test fitting the knuckle onto the axle, I ended up going the heads of more than just the 3 and 9 o clock bolts to clearance everything. I also had to grind the ball ends of the housing at 3 and 9.

    King pin bearings are a slip fit.
     
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  14. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    thanks - just wanted to make sure there wasn't undue wear there....I ordered a complete set of timken bearings and races from from some random agriculture machinery place in Michigan on the web....was having quite a lot of trouble finding Timken bearings from any of the normal auto/jeep suppliers, and this was cheaper as well...Apparently Timken is still way behind on production, especially for stuff that is not currently being used for new production.
    that is my plan...then I'll post a pic and we'll see how that looks....I had ordered a spot facing tool, but seems I ordered the wrong one - the pilot is too large to fit into the existing threaded hole (maybe it was suggested for the pressed in stud option where the hole is drilled out a bit), but mcruff is sending me his tool so hopefully that will work better.
    Yup...saw that, I think from Don Butler's posts....I like the idea of putting in a drill and spinning it while grinding it on the bench grinder...we used to do something similar with rock sample cores that we needed to reduce the diameter of before fitting them in various rock mechanics rigs , although we often used a lathe and bench grinder together to make it happen.
     
  15. Aug 19, 2021
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member 2021 Sponsor

    redding ca.
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    It took me 2 months to get my king pin bearings I ended up buying a set of knuckles that came with new bearings still waiting for the ones I ordered to show up. Let me know if you need the felt seal part number I have a new set on the shelf I can get the number off of.
     
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  16. Aug 19, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
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    Thanks Fino!
    I enjoy visual learning. Your pics and descriptions along with the knuckle stud thread will very likely help when I get there.
    That’s somewhere between 3-5 on my list!
     
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  17. Aug 19, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    By all means please do...it's good to add it to the database.
     
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  18. Aug 20, 2021
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Your always welcome to come down and use the drill press if needed. The mill is still sitting on the pallet in the shop. I hope to build a stand with wheels this weekend for it, depending on if the back lets me.
     
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  19. Aug 20, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    I've got a drill press....just need the correct counterbore tool for the spot facing....it should hopefully be along reasonably soon...
     
  20. Aug 20, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Here is the crown kit I plan to order for the knuckle oil seals....Crown J0908226 - added to the top detail
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CWA-J0908226
    I think its all the same as the ones from the usual jeep specific suppliers, and as i have something else to order from Summit, i'll qualify for free shipping.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
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