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Old Red Maintenance Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Fireball, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. Jul 28, 2021
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    virginia
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,018
    Looks good
     
    Fireball likes this.
  2. Jul 29, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    Finally got the hitch bolted up so I can tow the Bantam! :bananatool:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now it's time to clean up the wiring. First item was removing the flat towing harness and associated extra tail lights.

    This was wrapped up under the hood and was poorly routed to the back:
    [​IMG]

    The outside taillights were wired to the flat tow harness only:
    [​IMG]

    All removed:
    [​IMG]

    I have more cleanup to do in the back to remove splices for an old trailer harness and to properly wire in a new trailer harness.

    The underhood wiring needs a lot of work and I'm trying to decide if I should restore and install this Spartan turn signal while I'm at it:
    [​IMG]

    It's more original than the one in it and would self-cancel, but the one in it has built-in hazard lights:
    [​IMG]
     
    blalp!, Ol Fogie, locrwln and 5 others like this.
  3. Jul 30, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    Cleaned up the Spartan turn signal switch can tonight.

    Some of the contacts are pretty dark. I cleaned them up with Sctoch-Brite. The rivet crimp holding the orange wire was loose so I pounded it back tight. The rest of the wires seem good:
    [​IMG]

    Lots of little pieces:
    [​IMG]

    One of the springs that push the contacts together had collapsed. No surprise it's on the side with the dark contact:
    [​IMG]

    I stretched it back out. It feels OK so maybe it will last a while:
    [​IMG]

    Cleaned and back together with a tiny amount of grease in the sliding areas. It all checks out electrically:
    [​IMG]

    Next is making the housing pretty.
     
    Ol Fogie, homersdog, blalp! and 6 others like this.
  4. Jul 30, 2021
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,771
    I install a small wire from the blinker light mounting screw then through the main loom and ground it to the dash. This will provide a ground connection so you don't have to remove the paint on the steering column to ground the housing.
     
    Ol Fogie, blalp!, dozerjim and 3 others like this.
  5. Aug 2, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    More dinking around with the turn signal today.

    Soaked a bunch of the rusty bits in vinegar first thing in the morning:
    [​IMG]

    Then I cleaned and sanded to the front cover, wet sanded the green lens and through a coat of paint on it. The turn signal stalk was too far gone to recover the finish, so I sanded it smooth and painted it with aluminum paint. Cleaned and sanded:
    [​IMG]

    After 10 hours in vinegar the rusty stuff in the cleaned up pretty good. Especially the plated stuff. It looks like new:
    [​IMG]

    Paint drying on the rest of the housing parts:
    [​IMG]

    I really like this idea so I ran an additional ground wire. You can see the painted stalk and housing face too:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Aug 3, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    Putting the Spartan back together:
    [​IMG]

    Turned out decent and everything seems to be working:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And then I noticed a missing transfer case mount bolt:
    [​IMG]

    I thought I'd quickly throw a bolt in there and be done with it. Not so fast. There is no clearance around anything and I noticed the mount on the frame was starting to separate. I pulled it out and flipped it around to put the load in the other direction:
    [​IMG]

    But it's a stupid design from Jeep. Even with the mount flipped, a thin nut, and washers to space the bolt up it interferes with the crossframe. Even when you jack up that side of the transfercase with a floor jack, lifting the whole Jeep, it barely clears. What the heck? I checked the 71 and the bolt is hitting the crossframe on it too. Lame:
    [​IMG]

    That will do for the moment. I've got both transfercase mounts on order to see if it helps any, but I'm gusesing not. I'll custom trim the bolt if needed when I swap the mounts ...or maybe even put a divot in the crossframe.

    I also orderd the 4 cylinder style mount for the '71. I'm not putting this hokey setup back in it when I rework the crossframe for the T18.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
  7. Aug 3, 2021
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb 2020 Sponsor

    Jasper Georgia
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    733
    Wonder why the TC mount was ever changed to that style to begin with. The old round doughnut style mount on the crossmember never gave any problems ever that I can recall in the million or so miles we drove all the older model jeeps.
    I wonder if those could be converted back to the old type? I do remember that we would have the same bolt work loose once in a while until we changed the nut to a castle nut and cotter key.
     
  8. Aug 3, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    6,084
    Every time (3 times?) I used the donut mount with a V6, it was too rigid and broke the ear on the t-case. The V6 motor mounts are very flexible, and the trans mount isn’t very strong, and during hard abuse (downhill landings mostly), the whole drivetrain would pivot around that t-case mount and act like a pry bar on the edge of the t-case tab. I stopped having that issue when I chained down the engine to take most of the flex out of the motor mounts. I have to wonder if they used the metal bracket as a bit of a stress reliever between the t-case and rubber mount.
     
    Ol Fogie likes this.
  9. Aug 3, 2021
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    449
    I'm sure it's been discussed but why do some jeeps have spacers between the cross member and frame and some do not. Or different number of them? Driveshaft angle?
     
    truckee4x4 likes this.
  10. Aug 3, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    That must be the case.

    I'm not sure. It's either driveline angle or floor clearance for the large hole transfer case. The large hole D18 is bulkier up top.
     
  11. Aug 3, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    For comparison.

    Large hole:
    [​IMG]

    Small hole:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Aug 3, 2021
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    449
    The spacers are also present on Commandos with the D20. Never could figure out what they were for.
     
  13. Aug 6, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    Starting on the wiring cleanup. Gained access and then figured out what needs to be done.

    Hood and windshield removed for access:
    [​IMG]

    Some of the issues:

    The original starter soleniod wire had broken off at the engine harness connector and they poorly bypassed it with the large yellow wire:
    [​IMG]

    The turn signal wiring is a mess and there is a switch for the heater motor black taped to the steering column:
    [​IMG]

    It has a 10Si alternator now and they poorly re-ran the charge light wire and also tied it to the load side of the flasher???? The terminals for the temp sender and the distributor are kind of a mess so I'll clean those up too:
    [​IMG]

    The wires for the old Motorola regulator are coiled up at the base of the fender and the regulator is still there:
    [​IMG]

    Here is where the alternator exciter wires now go though the firewall and where the poorly ran backup light power wire exits the cab:
    [​IMG]

    Dash pulled back for access:
    [​IMG]

    Th glove box is a bit of a mess. I ordered a plastic replacement:
    [​IMG]

    Here you can see where the undersized charge wire for a 10si alternator has melted insulation:
    [​IMG]

    After all this, I have a basic plan:
    • Fix the body side of the engine harness plug so the starter wire works again
    • Pull the engine harness and:
      • Clean up the distributor, electric choke, and temp sender connectors
      • Unwrap the last part of the harness and replace the alternator to starter wire with 10G wire and a 14G fusible link
      • Connect the original charging light wire to the exciter circuit on the alternator
    • Re-connect the original charging light wire under the dash
    • Re-run the backup light wires with sensible routing
    • Wire in the Spartan turn signal and clean up the turn signal wiring in the process
    • Connect the heat blower motor wires to the original switch
    • Remove the old dome-light wire that's a short waiting to happen
    • Clean up the tail-light wiring removing the garbage quick splice connectors and old trailer harness
    • Add new flat-4 trailer harness
    Everything else looks OK so this shouldn't take too long.
     
    locrwln, 47v6, dozerjim and 6 others like this.
  14. Aug 6, 2021
    Puddle Jumper

    Puddle Jumper Rattle Can Master Painter

    Camas, WA
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2020
    Messages:
    145
    I will bring my jeep by and you can do it next. (y)
     
    Fireball likes this.
  15. Aug 7, 2021
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb 2020 Sponsor

    Jasper Georgia
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    733
    How about I just send you my 74's wiring harness and you can use it for a pattern to build me one too?:D:D.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  16. Aug 9, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    Made good progress on the wiring tonight.

    First I spliced in a short chunk of wire to fix the bypassed start solenoid wire:
    [​IMG]

    Then I pulled the engine harness out and unwrapped the last several feet of it. Most of the sensor wires were OK, but the insulation was starting to crack where they came out of the harness. I covered the brittle areas with heat shrink tubing:
    [​IMG]

    Then I did the following:
    • Redid the wires/terminals for the ignition/electric choke
    • Removed all the old wires that went to the no longer used voltage regulator
    • Replaced the terminals on the temp/oil senders
    • Made a new 10 guage alternator to starter wire that's more appropriately sized for the 10si
    • Connected the alternator excitation wire back to the proper wire in the engine harness and then reconnected it under the dash too
    • Installed a heat shrink butt connector in place of the old one bypassing the ballast resistor
    • Installed the harness prior to wrapping and verified everything was working correctly.
    • Wrapped it up
    Here it is ready for the final install:
    [​IMG]

    Back in the Jeep and hung on the cowl with new straps:
    [​IMG]

    Hard to tell from the pictures but the wiring is tidier on the the engine and down by the starter:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Next I crimped the proper bullet connectors on the Spartan and plugged it in to see if it worked. Huzzah!:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Brake lights work too. Since it looked good, I bolted it in. Now I'll have cancelling signals for the first time since I've owned the Jeep:
    [​IMG]

    The turn siganl wiring is much cleaner under the dash now:
    [​IMG]

    Next is cleaning up the heater motor wires (as seen above), running new backup light wires the whole length of the Jeep, and cleaning up the taillight/trailer wiring in the back.
     
  17. Aug 10, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    Spent most of the night working on the '71, but got two things done on the '69:

    1) Got the heater blower wires cleaned up and hooked to and original switch I found on Ebay:
    [​IMG]

    That allowed me to remove the generic switch that was taped to the steering column. You can just see it in this old picture:
    [​IMG]

    I also removed the Motorola voltage regulator from the fender. If anyone wants it, let me know. It probably works. I'm guessing the 10si alternator came with the 231 and this got abandoned when the motor was swapped:
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Aug 12, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    It looks like the '69 didn't come with backup lights originally and someone added them later. It almost seems like an old dealer-install kit. The wiring was continuous, It has standard Jeep backup lights, and the connectors match the original Jeep ones.

    However, let me counts the ways the whole backup light system was broken....

    1) The fuse was blown.

    2) The switch on the transmission does not work. New one ordered. Plowed ahead with wiring anyway. I'll change this out when I rip up the floorboards to pull the steering gear.

    3) They ran the feed wire out the firewall through the speedometer cable hole along the exhaust.

    Resulting melted insulation:
    [​IMG]

    4) Then they ran it over the transfer case shifting mechanism.

    This cut completely through the insulation and is probably the cause of the blown fuse. I cut the wire just past this to reuse but you can see the damage:
    [​IMG]

    5) Then they clipped it under one of the metal factory wiring clips on the frame rail right where it bent to go to the transmission. It was nearly cut through here also. I covered this with heat-shrink tubing:
    [​IMG]

    6) The right bulb was burned out.

    7) The right light housing was corroded and wouldn't make contact with the new bulb:
    [​IMG]

    I cracked the plastic lens getting the *$&$* snap ring out, so I ordered new lenses.

    8) The wire feeding the left backup light is not plugged in and wrapped around a bolt on the bumper:
    [​IMG]

    I'm sure it's corroded too. I'll clean it up when the new lenses show up.

    But... after jumpering the broken switch, I have a right-side backup light. The wiring works!
    [​IMG]

    9) As you can see in the above picture, the backup lights only light up the gas cans in their current location. I'm making them work because I hate non-functional stuff on the Jeep but I'm thinking about adding additional vintage looking backup lights in the old flat towing tail light holes. They are outboard of the tail lights and are below the rack where they would be somewhat useful.

    After verifying the wiring is working, I tidied up the routing. It's zip tied along the tail-light harness (red wire):
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Almost there with the wiring project. All that's left is cleaning up the light wiring in the back.
     
    locrwln, Ol Fogie, Rubicloak and 3 others like this.
  19. Aug 13, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,090
    Got the wiring work done last night.

    In the back before:
    [​IMG]

    After with the new trailer harness. Still not amazing, but cleaner and the new trailer harness plugs inline with the Jeep wiring and is easily removed The right side wires are now well attached and I wrapped the insulation damaged by the crimp splices with silicon tape:
    [​IMG]

    New trailer pigtail:
    [​IMG]

    After all that, the left side turn/stop light no longer worked. I know it worked a couple nights ago when I put the turn signal switch in. WTF?

    First thing I checked was the bulb and found this:
    [​IMG]

    The license light lens had popped out slightly leaving a gap for access. This is better:
    [​IMG]

    But it still wasn't working. After checking all my new connectors I had to start checking continuity along the wire from under the dash all the way back. It turns out there was corrosion in the connector down by the steering box. I must have jostled it when I was zip-tying the new backup light wire in place:
    [​IMG]

    While I was in there I noticed one of the brake light switch wires had work hardened and broken off at a connector. I fixed that and cleaned the contacts on both brake light switch plugs. They are working much better now.

    With all that taken care of, everything seems to be working. Even the trailer harness:
    [​IMG]

    Now I need to put the dash back together. Then I want to drive and enjoy it for a bit before pulling the Ross steering gear out for a rebuild.
     
  20. Aug 13, 2021
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    5,043
    well the nest didn't look occupied :lol:
    we get both building nests . wasps and mud drivers
    had a big nest in front fender well on van. that didn't get driven much
    saw it one day when I went to get in van
     
    Fireball likes this.
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