1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

The Official "What The Heck Is This?" Thread

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Focker, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Dec 7, 2021
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7,493
    I'd be keeping my eyes open for a set of 11" Bendix brakes, self adjusting & if you can find them the rear backing plates are set up for parking brakes.
     
  2. Dec 7, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2021
    Messages:
    785
    Using the Willys truck brakes to upgrade a CJ was once a very common thing to see, but I agree with Howard on updating to 11" Bendix brakes.

    They are a much better design, for several reasons, than those old Willys truck brakes, and since you will have to buy shoes cylinders, and possibly drums either way, might as well use better brakes. I have some extra backing plates I would sell at my cost if you need them.
     
  3. Dec 7, 2021
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,431
    Curious, what are a few of those reasons? Considering that I don't like, want, or need, automatic adjusters.
     
  4. Dec 7, 2021
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7,493
    You may like cam adjusters but I was never good at getting them balanced, there were times I would swear there was a linkage rod directly connecting the brake pedal & steering box :shock:
     
    Fireball and 3b a runnin like this.
  5. Dec 7, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,409
    Parts for the Bendix brakes are cheap and widely available. Ford pickups had these brakes, and parts support is excellent considering they are "antiquated" drums. Ford built a bazillion trucks with these brakes. IMO Bendix self-adjusters properly assembled work well and are easy to get right. I use the brake calipers that my mechanic friend used in the day... he rebuilt dozens of these Bendix brakes.
    https://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-3377-Brake-Resetting-Gauge/dp/B0002SQUJ0/ref=asc_df_B0002SQUJ0

    I suspect they are the best you can do with drum brakes on a CJ. I think the Delco 11x2 brakes that Jeep used for Wagoneers and J-trucks from 1974-on are also very good, but not easily adaptable to CJs. Maybe someone could work that out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  6. Dec 7, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2021
    Messages:
    785
    Good question Peter,

    The Bendix design is more than just self adjusting brakes.

    The Willys truck brakes, like the Lockheed brakes on CJ2As, are anchored at the bottom, the later 11" Bendix design brakes are not anchored at the bottom and can move. This is what makes the later Bendix design superior.

    The self adjusting feature is nice, but the self-actuating feature is what makes them better brakes.

    Here is a description I found for that:

    "Many drum brakes are self-actuating. As the brake shoes contact the drum, there is a kind of wedging action, which has the effect of pressing the shoes into the drum with more force. The extra braking force provided by the wedging action allows drum brakes to use a smaller piston than disc brakes."
     
  7. Dec 7, 2021
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,431
    Timgr, the parts support is an excellent consideration. Valuable info.

    I take your point. My perspective was from seeing many failed or frozen self adjusters.


    Interesting. To clarify - are you saying that this freedom is what makes them "self actuating?" I always assumed the direction of rotation alone would make one shoe self-actuating, regardless.
     
  8. Dec 7, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2021
    Messages:
    785
    Correct, the Self-actuating Bendix design can "rock" toward the direction of rotation which wedges the brake shoes into the drum providing more force than the older designs with the shoes anchored at the bottom. The older designs, such as the Lockheed, Wagner, or earlier Bendix, are pinned in place and are not "Self-Actuating".

    It is a combination of the pressure applied by the wheel cylinder and the wedging motion that produces more force, and thus better stopping power. The older designs only have the pressure applied by the wheel cylinders.
     
  9. Dec 7, 2021
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,431
    Always learning something here. Thanks
     
  10. Dec 7, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,703
  11. Dec 8, 2021
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,431
  12. Dec 8, 2021
    WarFlea83

    WarFlea83 New Member

    Indianapolis, IN
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2021
    Messages:
    6
    Great discussion and education, thanks folks! I think using these older style 11” will be fine on the rear axle with discs up front. Especially compared to the old 9” brakes. I also have a spare parts rear axle with seized 10” drums on it as a backup, if these don’t work out for some reason.
     
  13. Dec 8, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2021
    Messages:
    785
    Those 10" brakes are Wagner, and they are self-actuating and have self adjustment as well, though some parts are difficult to find.
     
  14. Dec 8, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    3,523
    I totally agree with your "self actuating" comments. The 4 cyl Tuxes used 10" Wagner brakes, with self adjusters, but did not use the later cable type adjusters. I refer to this design as "double leading shoe" where both shoes tend to cam (wedge) into the drum as more force is applied. A properly adjusted set of 10" drum brakes are almost dangerously effective. A sharp jab on the brakes could lift the rear tires more than 12" off the pavement!
    -Donny
     
  15. Dec 8, 2021
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,431

    Although, IIRC, on classic motorcycles like Bonnevilles "twin leading shoe" once meant two cams - not floating shoes. That's where my education stopped.

    Either way, not so effective in reverse. Would that matter, say, in a Jeep backing down a steep slope?


    s-l1600-15.jpg
     
  16. Dec 8, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2021
    Messages:
    785
    I like the description "floating". The wedging action on the Bendix and Wagner design would work the same way in reverse, so yes they would provide better braking backing down hill than the older designs with the fixed shoes.
     
    Lockman likes this.
  17. Dec 19, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash Blind and Dirty 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    2,753
    Took the oil pan off my 231 to peek inside and get a good gasket on it. Found this thin metal part on the floor a few minutes later. It could be completely unrelated?????
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Dec 19, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,703
    Buildflycrash likes this.
  19. Dec 19, 2021
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Newark
    Joined:
    May 29, 2019
    Messages:
    182
    That's a starter shim, or a really big bearing shim. Ron
     
    Buildflycrash and Lockman like this.
  20. Dec 19, 2021
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Active Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Marysville, WA
    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,031
    That's a starter shim, I'd bet the farm on it.
     
    Buildflycrash likes this.
New Posts