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Varg In Jeep's Clothing

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by ITLKSEZ, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. Jan 8, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I can't. Now you see why I had to get it out of my sight.
     
  2. Jan 8, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    didn't work though. you dug out something from the snow like a dog finding a bone.
     
  3. Jan 8, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I could SMELL it!!!
     
  4. Jan 8, 2016
    Rralphs

    Rralphs Old Member

    Nederland, Co
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    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  5. Jan 8, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    After I got rid of my 164, It occured to me I should have saved some of the parts like the rear axle, the York compressor and the rack and pinion steering. The six cyl radiator is the same configuration as a V6 but I think the hose sizes aren't the same. The radiator out of a 240 is about the exact same size as the stock one for a 134.
    I still want a P1800 ES and a FC 150, heck, I want an Amazon 120 as well. A guy I used to work for had an Amazon with a B 20 motor, It was a fun car. Another guy had a 544 with a B20, lowered suspension. Another fun car. My old 124 wasn't happy until you got it over 70 MPH.
    I should go out and sweep the snow off of the 240 and give it a pat on the hood. It's just a young pup, only 201,000 miles on it so far.
     
  6. Jan 9, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    It was built north of the arctic circle... It hasn't even felt a chill in the air. :)
     
  7. Jan 9, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    That may be true but on my 144S in the winter the carbs used to ice up on the highway. Really at -30 the only vehicle that I have that I can rely on to start is the V6 converted CJ3B.
     
  8. Jan 12, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I pulled the cover off that axle. Definitely a Dana 30-sized ring gear.
    3.91:1 ratio. That's odd.
     
  9. Jan 20, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I'm bailing on the Volvo axle idea. I think I could make it work, but I'm not sure I want to commit that much time into an experiment that will net a weak R&P just to say it is all Volvo parts. In the end, I'd have to use 10-hole wheels that are dual-pattern (5x4.5"/5x4.25") because I just can't figure a way to match the Volvo hub pattern to a 4wd pattern without modifying a front-wheel drive hub to fit on a D30 knuckle.

    I'm back to my original plan of using Toyota axles. They're strong, exactly the width I'm after, and they have good clearance. There are a few sets locally right now on CL... I just have to bite the bullet and face the fact that I'm not going to find them cheap.
     
  10. Jan 20, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I know Volvo parts are crazy-strong for what they are, but multiplying the torque by 2.62 and bolting 32" tires to them becomes a different ballgame.
     
  11. Jan 20, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    All I can say is that I could squak the tires with my B30 and I never had any issues other than normal things. I would go towards having a dana flanged 44 in there if I had the option
     
  12. Jan 28, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Going to pick up a set of 4.10 Toyota axles next week. From the CL ad:

    "Just took these axles out of an '84
    Trail Gear Hi-Steer
    Tie-Rod and Draglink included
    U-Bolts and hardware included
    Everything worked fine."
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  13. Jan 28, 2016
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    Should be rock solid. My 4runner is the only toyota I've ever owned, it is extremely well built.

    Your project is becoming a franken-varg. I enjoy watching this thread. Keep up the good work.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  14. Feb 2, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Uh oh.... Look what ended up in the back of my truck today...

    [Imagine a picture of Toyota axles in the back of my truck. This image was lost...]
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  15. Feb 3, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    About these Toyota axles... one thing that is throwing a kink in my plan is that the spring perches on these axles are about 2 1/2" too wide, and there is really no way of making them any narrower without making the perches higher (to climb up the side of the pumpkin) or somehow french the perch into the housing (not going there).

    So if I'm going to stick with leaf springs up front, and do a shackle reversal as planned, I'll have to make the springs sit wider under the frame. This wrecks my plan to mount the upper shackle mount through the frame like I did on my 3B....

    [​IMG]
    ...because the springs will sit half-outboard/half-under the frame.

    The reason I was asking around about negative arch springs before was because I want to build this with spring-over-axle design, at least in the front, but I don't want the added lift that comes with it. I went out of my way to build my 3B with as little lift as possible with a stock YJ spring-over, and it is still about 2 inches taller than I want to go with this 3A.

    I'm left with 3 options...
    (1) Put the shackles up front, which I don't like at all due to bent main leafs when hitting obstacles and the un-natural movement of the axle.
    (2) Go spring-under, which is still on the table, but I'd rather not... Aside from the added ground clearance issues, the amount of axle swing with a shackle-reversed, arched spring is a driveshaft nightmare.

    Or my final option is to use a stock YJ spring, slung over the axle, and use this slider kit, and french it into the frame.
    [​IMG]
    The main leaf will essentially be level with the bottom of the frame. I'll end up with minimum lift and maximum travel. The front frame horns are getting chopped off and rebuilt anyway; I'll build them with more of an arch in them to accept more upward axle travel and clearance for the hi-steer setup. The only real downside that I see is the added road noise and impacts being transferred into the frame with the shackle's rubber bushing being replaced with UHMW pucks, and the added friction that comes with the design.

    From what I can tell, this will essentially eliminate the possibility of using a Scout/Ford steering box like I'd planned, but with new front frame clip being custom built, I'll be able to build it as strong as it needs to be to handle the power steering box out front. It will also open up some crowded real estate in the left side of the engine bay.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  16. Feb 4, 2016
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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    Why not cut the spring pads off, move them out further. Fab the front frame wider so the spring will be under the rail. On the rear put the entire shackle outboard. The shackle could be reversed to get the ride height lower. Just a thought.
     
  17. Feb 4, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    On the rear, I already have 100+(?) hours into the rear bumper that is incorporating the shackle mount into it. Not changing that. :)

    Up front, I want to try to keep the springs as narrow as possible to retain the maximum travel from my steering, while keeping all the vital geometry correct. It drives me nuts when my steering is limited by the tires hitting the leaf springs. (Not a fan of wheel spacers to "correct" the issue.) I have sway bars in the plan front and rear (and possibly a panhard bar on a quick-release if I can find a place to put it), so the idea of closely-spaced springs won't be as scary as it sounds.

    Thanks for the input and ideas. (y)
     
  18. Feb 4, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    My steering being limited is a very irritating problem that made me go with the Dana 30 swap. I can see why you would want to avoid that issue. Narrower tires would fix my issue.
     
    Andy Weaver likes this.
  19. Jun 1, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I'm always planning... thinking.... scheming... when I should be working. I still have at least a month until I can get back on this.

    I think I finally came up with a solution to my ultimate plan of:
    1. Comfortable street ride
    2. Low lift height
    3. Full lock-to-lock steering
    4. Maximun ground clearance

    After finally coming to the conclusion that I am just not going to be able to use front leaf springs and have maximum steering radius (I can't move the springs in far enough on the Toyota front axle without running into the 3rd member), I started looking at other options.

    Coilovers are great for where there is limited room and a nice ride, but they are just too expensive, and I'm not a big fan of how coilovers keep pushing until the shock is maxed out. It's great on a racer for full-travel spring load, but it makes for an increased pucker factor in a wheeler. When you are an inch from going over, that extra push from the drooped corner can be enough to flip you over, where a traditional coil or leaf spring is on the negative-side of its spring load at that point. The weight of the axle and opposite side's leverage is all that is pushing it down, and the drooping spring is actually trying to pull the wheel back up.

    So here is my plan. I'm a big fan of Land Rover Discoverys' radius arms...

    [​IMG]

    ...but they won't work for my application. So I'll just borrow the basic design.

    For a frame mount, I remembered I had these huge trailing arm links I had bought for my Volvo 850, and I could never get the old ones out. Perfect.
    (And don't ever say a Volvo isn't overbuilt. These are for the rear of a front wheel drive car.)

    [​IMG]

    I altered some frame prints I found online and drew in my plan.

    [​IMG]

    -The front end will get stretched 3", just like the back.
    -I'll build some custom radius arms out of 1/8" and/or 3/16" plate that will drop down and under the frame rail, avoiding the tire at full lock.
    -I'll mount some coils from the rear of a Volvo 740 (140 pounds/inch) or the front of an XJ (180 pounds/inch), depending on how heavy this thing gets. Uncompressed, they are only an inch different.
    -The shock will go through the coil and will share a bottom mount that will be hinged on the axle to prevent the spring from bowing.
    -The top shock mount will be higher than the top spring mount to allow maximum spring travel.
    -I might put an extra bend in the front 12" of the radius arm to allow it to tuck up tight to the frame under full compression. I didn't feel like redrawing it. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  20. Jun 1, 2016
    47v6

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    wow. cool. get to work.
     
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