Best narrow track Dana 30 iteration questions

If just the sheetmetal portion is rusted away of the dust shields they can be replaced on the disc units. They just press on. R&P used to stock these. The drum brake units I don't know if available. The V-seal doesn't ride in the tube, it rides on the back of the spindle. It's purpose is to keep debris out of the axle to spindle bearings, not out of the axle tubes.

 

Say Nick,
Doesn't that "V" seal require a thick fiber washer on the axle side of the seal ?
Seems to me that the regular lip type seals that are used with the outer axle shaft into the drum brake spindles might do a better job of sealing.
Also re the drum axle shafts always thinner than the disk axle shafts ?
I think that my D-30 has the thinner diameter drum axle shafts.
Any possible sealing problems using the thin axle shafts with the disk type spindles ?

 

There are plastic/nylon thrust washers and bronze/brass thrust washers. The thrust washer, "V" or "bellows" seal, and in er spindle bearing are all included in the Spicer kit. The "plastic" thrust washers seem to hold up better oddly enough. i think maybe because they have some "give" and aren't too rigid like the bronze units. I've found the pressed in drum brake seal works good at keeping the grease in but not very good at keeping debris out, especially as they age and stiffen up. Plus the outer axle has some radial movement that seems to wear the pressed in seal excessively that the "V" seal can absorb because of it's flexibility.
There is a "V" type seal for the drum brake axle (smaller diameter) but iirc I've gotten them from Scout 2 axles. I may have a few good used ones if you're interested. I'd have to check though.


Edit: just for clarification, the plastic or bronze washer is a thrust washer for the outer axle against the spindle. The drum brake units use them also iirc. It fits in the inner diameter of the "dust shield" or "slinger" on the outer axle and against the step the dust shield is pressed onto. There is a chamfer on one side of the thrust washer that fits against the fillet on the axle. If you get it on backwards the axle won't go all the way through the spindle and you won't be able to get the snap ring on the end of the axle.

 

Yeah,
I have not run nor messed with the Dana 30 axles for 37 years but I think I understand all that.
I have 4 of the bellows type seals... see: http://www.ebay.com/itm/11076112985...item=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:US:1120&vxp=mtrand
I think maybe the bellows seals have an AMC part number on them ?? I'll check.
I also have 4 of the lip type seals (CR 19992)
Not sure which type seals that I'll use.
If I use the bellows type I will need to locate 4 of the plastic washers.
I've never seen a part number listed for those washers.
Does anyone happen to know where I can find the plastic washers ?

 

added up the price for complete rebuild minus the case and gears and I was up over 300 bucks in parts plus 3 to 500 for gears. This included the disk brake hubs because I don't have those. Not cheap. I have to mull it over. That means its going to happen..

 

The NOS seals that I have are marked on 1 side.
Forsheda "Vee" ring V-57
They are Jeep part # 8121399
As stated before I also have CR # 19992 neoprene lip seals.
Either type of seal can be used but not both.
It's obvious that the "Vee" "rings" will seal at the sides while the lip type will seal at the circumference.

The only D-30 axle shafts that I have are the early design.
Apparently the early shafts can be used with either type of seal.
The "Vee ring" seal or a more common design "neoprene lip" seal.

The early axle shafts have what's called a "spacer" which goes up against the outermost yoke.
This so called "spacer" is about 3/8" wide with a large flange.
This "spacer" consists of 2 parts and it has two functions.
It provides a roughly 3/8 wide surface for the neoprene type lip seals to ride in cases where they are to be used.
It also has a brass outer face that functions as a thrust washer to control axle shaft outward end float.

I have both drum and disk type D-30 spindles.
The inner faces of the spindles are identical.
They will both accept the same bearings, axle shafts and seals.
The only difference between them is the diameter as it goes into the hub.
So different inner hub bearings and seals are required than the drum type spindles.

There is a caged set of needle rollers (Torrington B-2110) that goes into the end of a D-30 spindle.
Not shown in any of my parts books is a small diameter neoprene seal the goes directly up against this axle shaft / inner spindle bearing.

I guess the nylon thrust washers are only used with the late (thicker) type D-30 axle shafts ?

 

Interesting info. I wonder if there was a running change somewhere. For a while we were machining open knuckle drum spindles to accept the larger diameter v seal of the disc brake outer axle. The id of the face and step on the backside of the drum spindle that accepted the pressed-in lip seal was smaller and the disc sized v-seal would not fit. This was before disc spindles were readily available like they are today and we were using up stock that we had to accommodate customer conversions. Believe me, if we didn't have to machine the spindles we wouldn't have. Like I said in my pm, I'll try and get pics of the different parts today and post them up.

 

Here are a few pics. You can see the difference in the outer diameter of the thrust washers. The larger bronze and plastic units are disc brake axle thrusts and the smaller diameter unit is drum brake. There is a pic of the disc brake "V" seal that stretches over the step and slinger on the outer axle. The drum brake slinger and step is a smaller diameter in this area and takes a different sized "V" seal or the seal that is pressed in the back of the spindle. The small black "V" seals shown are the ones that go between the outer axle and inner axle Torrington bearing that presses inside the spindle.
I've shown a pic with the drum brake thrust on one axle and the disc brake unit on another axle. both these axles are disc brake units. Unfortunately I don't have a drum brake unit on hand to show the difference. I'm going to dig around and see if I can find an open knuckle drum spindle and a disc spindle and double check the backs of both. Ken has me wondering if my memory is playing tricks on me:?, but I do remember machining the back side for a purpose other than full float conversions.

I had a pic showing the "V" seal on the axle step but it didn't turn out unfortunately.
The bottom picture also illustrates the difference between a stock Spicer disc brake outer axle and a Warn alloy shaft (just used for illustration purposes as I had it laying around).

 

So the pic showing the outer axle shaft with the bronze thrust washer is actually incorrect because the step circumference is too large for use with drum brake.
In reality the drum brake step circumference just fits over the diameter of the smaller bronze thrust washer.

Can you find any identification numbers moulded into those disk brake sized "Vee rings" ?
Mine are NOS Forsheda "Vee-Ring" V-57. and the ID is much too large to fit snug around the "step" of the drum brake "spacers".
That's strange because the Jeep part numbers 8121399 on the old packaging match those found in the 1972 Universal Parts Catalog.

Also...Just a couple weeks ago I had 3 sets of D-30 drum type spindles plus a pair of 1977 D-30 disk type spindles.
5 old original D-30 spindles from the early 70's and 1 was new manufacture.
The inside facing of the drum spindle which accepts the axle shaft all have the same shape and dimensions as the disk brake spindles.
The disk spindles are only different concerning the area going into the wheel hub.

 

I'll look for markings Ken. The spindle back issue is why I was wondering if maybe there was a running change to them. I'm going to try and find some loose drum and disc spindles hopefully Monday and check them out.

 

The part number listed for the D-30 spindle never changed from 1972 through 1976.
Its's ... GROUP 10-004-12 ....# 8121403 Spindle
I don't have any UPC's after that.

 

Just to muddy things up a little, I believe the poster said he has a D25 w/GM disc brakes. I converted a '73 D30 using the GM thick rotor discs and used the original D30 drum spindles with no issues other than I re-drilled the backing plates to rotate the calipers to a better position. It's been awhile, but I believe I used the plastic thrust washer for disc brakes. I also used Alloy USA axle shafts, if that matters.

 

I have the spindles and hubs from the drum setup and was going to use them in conjunction with the GM disk brakes that are already on my D25. It might just be easier to just get the money together and rebuild one of the disk setups though. No matter what I do its going to be more than i want to spend. There is really nothing wrong with my D25. I rebuilt everything except the R&p on it and drives great, just doest turn short enough. I'll probably have the D30 rebuilt by spring anyway. Dana gears, motive gears, yukon gears Whats the best bang for the buck or the worst bang when they blow up?

 

I bought the Yukon 5.38 r&p for my D30. I have no complaints. I've had them for about 4 years worth of wheeling. They seem to be well made. I think I bought them from Randy's Ring & Pinion. As I recall I had to wait for them as 5.38 is not common for the D30. Also, the D30 does have a better turning radius than the D25 and being a little wider helps keep the tires off of the springs on a tight turn.

 

Yukon are decent gears. That is Randy's quality house brand. They have a less expensive house brand, i forget the name. Don't bother as they are a bitch to setup and don't last as long. I've set up literally dozens of the Yukon gearsets with few issues. Motive gear I won't use. Too many issues.

Ken, the part numbers On the "V" seals I have match your numbers and they are definitely for disc brake outer axles.

Posimoto, 99.9 % of aftermarket axles are for disc brakes. Makes no sense from a manufacturing standpoint to do otherwise. That's why you were able to use the disc brake thrust washers.

To the OP, if you use the drum brake spindles your existing disc brake conversion should be a virtual bolt on as I said before. If you use the disc brake spindles you will need to change the inner wheel bearing race, bearing, and seal. Depending in whether you use drum brake or disc brake knuckles you may have to grind the knuckle for caliper clearance and redrill the caliper bracket to "clock" it to the right position. Might do a search on this as it's been covered a lot. I know I've posted pics several times as have a lot of other folks. If you need more clarification post up here or pm me. Been doing this conversion for around 20 ish years. Only issue with me is I may be slow getting back to you. 2 jobs, daughter, and personal life interfere sometimes.

 

Here's a pic of the back of a drum brake 30 spindle. See the rough forging area around the inside of the stepped area? On a disc brake spindle that is machined for the V seal to ride against and for the larger thrust washer used on the outer axle. Sorry for the crummy quality of the pic but this was taken with my phone. Hopefully it shows up.

 

Thanks Nick,
Now I see what you mean.
I do recall seeing an area on a couple of spindles that had rough casting surface and was not machined smooth.
But I seem to recall that the slightly rough area was to the ID of the "V" ring seal face not the OD of the "V" ring seal face.
I look again at my remaining pair of drum and pair of disk spindles and verify those findings.

 

Here is a lousy pic of the back of a CJ disc spindle. It's been painted black so hard to see the machined surface. I have a pic of it with the V seal sitting in the recess but having issues with Photobucket. Ignore the rust pitting but this will give you an idea. This spindle eventually will find its way as a spare tire mount after I machine it for full float status which is why I don't care about the rust pitting.

 

So, Nickmil says I can use the drum dana 30 spindles, the bearings and hubs from the dana 25 in combination on the dana 30 axle. This would be a real money saver as I do not have any rotors or hubs for the dana 30 but I do have a complete working basically new GM disk setup on my dana 25.

 

Here's the other pic showing the back of the disc brake spindle with the v seal laying on it. Keep in mind the v seal is usually compressed between the outer axle and the spindle so extends wider than shown in the pic. This means it will fill up the cavity much more than shown in the pic.