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Seabee M38A1 Build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by tymbom, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Oct 5, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    They probably need to use the longer 44 knuckles for the tie rod to clear the pumpkin on the 9 inch.......

    Rather than moving the steering gear , you could maybe do a high steer arm on the passenger knuckle and then a straight pittman arm coming off the gear box.......the Drag link would then be over the tie rod........of course under full compression (if your springs would ever allow that) the tie rod and drag link could come together? From here it looks like you have the room, but I'm just looking into a glass box so you would be a better judge of that!

    Just another option to look at before you cut up your chassis.
     
  2. Oct 6, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    I've looked at stuff like that, I just don't have a lot of room to work. There is 6.5 inches of up travel to the frame. I would also like to keep from using a lot of custom parts. If I break a knuckle I can just replace it with a standard Early Bronco piece. If I was smart I would have built the frame with the 44/9in in mind. I built it with the Dana 30 thinking that I would eventually upgrade the axle, but later came sooner... It'll work out in the end, its just a bunch of metal..
     
  3. Oct 6, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Just options...........flat top 44 knuckles are pretty common.......and I doubt that you would ever see 6.5 " of full bump travel with the arch in that spring.

    Just trying to offer some alternatives , I like to weigh all options before I bring out the cut off wheel. Also a D-30 knuckle should go in there if you have enough room for the tie rod to clear the pumpkin.............Your right just sparks and Metal.
     
  4. Oct 7, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    Don't worry I appreciate all the suggestions from someone like you that knows what you're doing...
     
  5. Nov 17, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    So after my last couple updates when I came to the conclusion I had to chop off the frame rails and re do some work, I had to take a step back and think a little. Or a lot. I've chopped off the rails and got some stuff mocked up.

    [​IMG]

    The steering box mount is from Sam's Offroad in Tulsa Oklahoma. I've admired his brown CJ-7 since I was a teen. I remember seeing it in the magazines and falling in love with. Then seeing it in the Top Truck Challenge, and winning was too cool. Anyway, he beats his Jeep and uses this mount. It's made from 1/2in plate and weighs 8 pounds.

    [​IMG]

    You can see I have a little more room. This is with the longest pitman arm I have. It's about 7in center to center.

    [​IMG]

    This is at full droop, I still need to fab some front spring hangers. Ride height is only about 3in higher.

    I plan to bore a couple 3/4in holes in the drivers side frame rail to mount the steering box mount. I will insert 3/4in tubing with 1/2in inside diameter. Then I'm thinking I might span the frame rails with a piece of flat plate. I could tie in the top of the steering box mount and have a place to put a winch.

    The only place where it looks like I might have trouble will be the pitman arm interfering with the leaf spring when turned full left and compress the suspension. Once I build the spring hangers I can get a better idea... Thanks for checking it out. Laters.
     
  6. Nov 17, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    [​IMG]

    Here's a shot of Sam's Jeep in case you guys haven't seen it or don't remember. It's got a pair of Dana 60s and 39.5in Boggers here...
     
  7. Nov 18, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Jon, Looks Great............

    Looking at that 1st photo..........will the steering gear be mounted at the angle as shown to the frame? If so have you tried to go lock (L) to lock (R) ? .....That box is probably 3-3.5 turns from center to either direction. The long Pittman arm can have an effect to slow the movement down on the Drag Link as compared to a short one which will quicken it and likewise may run out of travel before the spindles hit the stops at either end.........Point is getting the right length pittman arm is important to get the correct travel from the box to the Drag link and to the spindle stops.........You obviously don't want to be short and also not long in travel...........having the box mounted at that angle and not having the Pittman arm starting position straight back in the straight ahead position may also produce a negative effect as the pittman arm is already cheating itself towards the drivers side which perhaps means that travel in the opposite direction may be compromised................

    Hard to tell from here as perhaps the gear was already moved , It's late............but something to check just the same , before ya weld it all up.
     
  8. Nov 18, 2015
    fesser

    fesser Napa, CA 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Napa, CA
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    Nice job. You managed to get it on those big meats without making it look like an overlifted street toy. FYI, I can't see any of your pictures since you switched from tapatalk (about post 10). Might be just me.

    Edit: I can see the last picture now but not the others.
     
  9. Nov 18, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    Yeah the switch to the new format on the forum goofed up the pics...
     
  10. Nov 18, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    Tarry here is a shot of the mount from below on a newer style Chassis. You can see the angle. I kinda like the angle, because it shortens the length of the box.

    [​IMG]

    I've turned the steering from lock to lock and have full steering at the axle as well. I need the space between the box and the frame to build the spring hangers. With the longer steering arms, bigger tubing sizes of the linkage and moving the axle and box forward its crowded up there...

    The spring hangers are gonna be interesting...
     
  11. Nov 18, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Jon, that is a great looking mount and I do like the angle also........
    I'm not really concerned about the angle as much as I am about getting the input shaft and Pittman arm in Neutral.

    From what I have always been told by Tom Lee one of the smartest guys around who used to build steering gears for just about everyone until he retired earlier this year.....there is a "Sweet spot" in the steering gear at neutral or the middle at the straight ahead position.......in that box that position would be 1/2 way between lock to lock either way or about 3-3.5 turns in either direction. In that position that would also put the Piston and associated valving in neutral, meaning there would be no power input pulse to the sector shaft to turn in either direction also.........when he shipped me boxes he would have the input shaft marked in paint where neutral was. Obviously everything down and up stream from there also must be in the straight ahead position.

    The Pittman arm was then always positioned to the rear as close as straight back as could be possible given the spline count...........of course in most sector shafts and or Pittman arms the shaft and arm were keyed with a blank space so that us dummies that were replacing an OEM box back to the same vehicle could not get that portion of the replacement screwed up..........
    Along comes us folks doing these mods and when mounting the box we sometimes don't pay attention to those points that the factory built into the steering system and the Jeep wanders down the road because of that.............Pittman arms now can be purchased without the blank key that allow you to make that adjustment.........again , not saying anything is wrong with what your doing, I'm just saying that the box input shaft should be centered L/R and then the Pittman arm should be placed 1/2 way between the travel in either the L/R direction.
     
  12. Nov 18, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    Gotcha... I fiddled with it a bit more last night after I took these pictures, and I got everything more neutral. Thank you Tarry for your comments and insight, you're a valuable resource.
     
  13. Nov 18, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Jon ,

    That mount you have was originally designed to replace the factory 76-86 CJ mount that consisted of 2-3 pieces of stamped metal bolted together and then attached to the frame rail with bolts......never worked and always came loose........the factory also mounted that gear at a slight angle to the frame rail.............Although I've crawled under many , quite honestly I never paid attention to the clocking of the Pittman arm in those vehicles while in the straight ahead position...........I suspect that Pittman arm was also clocked to accommodate that gear angle.........anyway just an FYI , hope that helps , keep up the good work........
     
  14. Nov 18, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

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    Tarry here's a couple pics of what looks to be a stock later model Jeep steering box with the pitman arm.

    [​IMG]

    It looks like the tire is kinda sorta straight... And the pitman arm looks like its clocked to parallel with the frame rails. Which makes sense to keep the pitman arm out of the drivers side spring...

    The pitman arm I have is the classic universal model... I can clock it where I need it to be...
     
  15. Nov 26, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    <------ I found this picture the other day on Facebook. The Jeep on day one. I had just bought it and taken the home made metal hard top off. My daughter was 4 years old at the time and loved riding in it. We didn't go very far, just around the parking lot at a friend's shop.

    [​IMG]

    That's my two Chevy's in the background. The 2wd drive had a healthy Big Block and a 4 speed...
     
  16. Nov 26, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    [​IMG]

    I've managed to get the back seat mount mostly did. I'm planning to make a panel to close the front off, and be able to latch it, so I can store stuff under there without it sliding out.
     
  17. Nov 26, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    And I managed to drag the Ferd 9in out of my wife's Bronco....
    [​IMG]

    And then get it under the rear of the Jeep. Nothing finalized yet, I need to get the full weight at ride height before I set the opinion angle. It also needs gears and disc brakes and a truss and and...

    [​IMG]

    I'm pleased with the way it fits. It's 4in wider per side, but the wheels I have are a shallow offset, I think 4in back spacing, so its not silly wide like a lot of rigs running full width axles. That looks dumb to me, and kinda defeats the idea of a small compact vehicle.
    Thanks for checking stuff out. Laters.
     
  18. Nov 26, 2015
    piffey263

    piffey263 Active Member

    Medford, OR
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    John, your progress is looking great!
     
  19. Nov 26, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    Thanks man! We got a bunch a snow this week... I'm itching to get this going...
     
  20. Dec 16, 2015
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I've been getting a little work done this weekend... I've gotten the spring hangers tacked in place. They started as a piece of .250 wall 3.5x3.5 square tube. A bunch of trimming and cutting and filing, and they fit. They are notched to fit the frame rails and front cross member. It all kinda interlocks. I figgered using the box tubing was easier than trying to cut out a bunch of little pieces and trying to get them all square and even, much less strong. I just hope that it doesn't look like some monster truck or something... Thanks for checking it out. Laters
     
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