Water Pump (how bad did I mess up)

In effort to track down noises I noticed my water pump pulley moves 1/4 at the end of fan blades. I decided the water pump can no longer wait for new radiator.

I got the short water pump for the v6, however when pulling off the old one one of the bolts come off.

I noticed the bolts are threaded into aluminium, and two broke already. the bolt that holds the alternator adjuster, and one of the long ones. I see why they are not coming out with the one that came off. the threads on the one that came off you can't see them.. im suprised it didn't leak.

Any ideas or suggestions? I stopped working on it, and have penetraiting oil on all the bolts.
just trying to figure out whats best way to fix this broken bolt.. and i'm worried other bolts are going to break.

 

You do have a problem.

Steel bolts into aluminum will cause electrolytic corrosion, and this locks the bolts into the aluminum hole pretty good.

You can try some heat on the bolts that haven't broken yet. If you have access to an oxy-acetylene torch, heat the bolt heads till they are starting to glow red heat. Concentrate the heat on the bolt heads. If you get the aluminum too hot, you will see it sag. If it is just the old water pump, not a problem. Do that to the timing cover, you have a problem that will require someone to TIG it back to original countour and redrill and tap the hole.

The thing that makes the heat trick work is the expansion and contraction cycle while cooling. After heating, wait until the bolts have completely cooled, then dose them with the penetrating oil and try turning them. Work them back and forth, they may break loose and come out.

On the broken bolt, if it broke off flush with the aluminum timing cover surface, you pretty much are stuck with drilling it out. If you are careful and manage to get the drill CENTERED in the old bolt, you can drill it with progressively larger sizes until you can get a tap in the hole. The idea is remove all the old bolt material till you get to the minor diameter of the threads. It is possible then to save the original threads in the aluminum hole using a tap. I would NOT recomend trying an EZ-out. The liklehood of breaking off the EZ-out in the bolt is high, and these are so hard they are just about impossible to drill out.

If you miss center when drilling, then you will end up using a heli-coil repair on the hole. This isn't a bad thing, heli-coils done right are just as strong or stronger than the original threads. There are also inserts sold that you can use to restore the original hole diameter if you have drilled it out too large for the heli-coil.

If you have to go to this point, I would take the timing cover off and do this drilling on the bench instead of trying to work on it in the vehicle. It will be very difficult to drill straight unless you have the timing cover on a drill press. While you are at it, take a look at the timing chain, these Dauntless engine timing chains do get loose and this is a good time to change that out. If you remove the timing cover ensure that the 2 steel dowel pins stay in the engine block casting. Sometimes these will stick in the timing cover and pull out of the holes in the block. If they do, you can knock them out of the aluminum timing cover with a punch and reset them in the block with some thread locking compound.

When you get to the point of putting things back together, use some Never-seize compound on the threads.

Good luck, let us know how you do on it. I have been through this same job.

Don

 

I only got a propane torch at the moment, I will see if I can get anyone I know do me a favor in that department.

both bolts broke off at the water pump and not the cover. I'm thinking using a mig welder(again I can get someone to do me a favor) welding the nut after I get the pump off and trying what you said.

I do not want to drill these bolts, specially that 5 inch bolt....

I'm not sure if or when I can get access to a acytelene torch, do you think I should bother trying the little propane one?

 

the propane may help. you can weld a washer and then a nut to the broken bolt and usually they back right out. or heat the broken bolt and melt a candle on the bolt while its still hot this often helps too good luck

 

You say you have a MIG welder? I think that will help. When you weld the nut on what's left of the bolt, it will get really hot ... should be as hot or nearly as hot as you'd get with a gas torch.

I hate to point to TV as an example, but there was an episode on Fast and Loud where they removed rusted bolts with a MIG welder. I believe it's a widely used approach. Heat-cool-heat-cool ... it should loosen up.

 

What a coincidence. I just replaced my noisy water pump today on my 4.3 ltr V-6. The only problem I had was having bad hose clamps.

 

That 5 inch bolt you mentioned goes all the way through the timing cover into the block.

I think you will end up removing that timing cover.

The propane torch isn't hot enough to do what you need. The MIG may certainly help. As mentioned, weld a nut on the broken end and you have something to grip with a wrench.

Don

 

I would gladly do bad hose clamps, even putting a big hole in my radiator then this..

thanks guys, I'm currently seeing if I can burrow a friends acetylene torch and welder.

On bright side, so glad this didn't happen while I was driving or say on a wheeling trip like Rubicon.
hmm wonder what my timing chain looks like. I might get to find out...

 

There are 2 things i should have bought 40 years ago to deal with these Jeeps. a good hub puller and a Ox Ac setup.
A propane torch just won't quite do it, especially if you need to concetrate the heat on a bolt end or stubborn nut.

 

Trying propane torch is a waste of time. Snap-on has an excellent kit for broken bolt removal. It uses a different approach than Easy-out and it works.

 

I got to wait a week before I can get access to acetylene torch and mig.

yes those two tools are highly valuable. I got the hub puller just no torch.

I will check out the snap on tool your talking about.

 

I think I would weigh the amount of work to repair vs. the amount of money to get another part.

 

Don't know what you guys are doing with your propane torch but propane will melt the darn water pump and timing cover if you want it to. I actually use a propane setup to melt 15 lbs of aluminum at a time. I also use one to heat treat O-1 tool steel in my shop for cutting tools.

If you can't get the bolts out of the timing cover let me know, I can get them out without damaging the cover easily. I have done several of them over the years for guys on this board for a reasonable cost. When I rebuilt my engine back in 2005, I broke every bolt off in my cover, still use that cover and nobody would ever know there was ever a bolt broke off in it.

 

all I got is a little propane torch size of a hair spray bottle with a torch tip on it?

I recall the welding shop using propane torch/gas welder setup to cut steel, but I just got the little cheap blue bottle you get at hardware store for $4 bucks.

thank you mike, I will keep that in mind. Hopefully I will be able to fix this.



I did manage to get the rest of the little bolts off, just got two large bolts left.

 

"I actually use a propane setup to melt 15 lbs of aluminum at a time"

No doubt. But a hotter flame will allow a quicker more focused heat to be applied to a limited area, without warming up the whole engine.

 

If you decide to drill out the bolts, use left handed drill bits. Left handed drill bits turn in the direction you want to go.They often loosen up the bolt while drilling. Cant get them at the Depot. Grangers has them and I beleive Grizzly does (they may be cheaper there)

 

Thanks for the tip about left hand drill bits. I know I have to at least drill out one... Hopefully the other ones come out with heat and a nut welded.

 

I got the water pump off!

however, I cracked the timing cover and its slightly bent..... So I want your guys opinion on where I should go from here??
Should I finish removing two bolts out of the timing cover that attach to the water pump, and heat up the aluminium and try and bend that corner then drill it and have someone tig weld it? (keep in mind that where its attaches to water pump its tweaked too) I didn't mean too but this is the only way I got the water pump off and then went from there...
attempt to pull a timing cover at a junkyard? seeing my luck on this one this might not work (I do know a little bit more about removing stuck bolts)
Buy a new cover from summit for $100? or hope someone on the forum has one thats laying around?


I learned that once I got the water pump off the coolant in the block was keeping the bolts from getting too hot. (atleast I think)
My friend and I tried the Mig welder and he got the nut welded on and the bolt was cherry red and it snapped. Once, we got the water pump off after snapping left over bolts. I sat there with the propane torch for about 5 minutes per bolt and vice grips and slowly wiggled the thing back and forth tell I got it moving.




Crack...



The cover comes off easy enough after that but its cracked and bent from us getting the water pump and trying to get it to slide over the broken bolts..



Whats your opinions on the coolent passage in the intake? I got a bolt stuck, I will get access to a torch for sure this weekend. I can also try the washer and nut trick?
should I just go straight to drilling it?

 

"I learned that once I got the water pump off the coolant in the block was keeping the bolts from getting too hot.... I sat there with the propane torch for about 5 minutes per bolt"

Oxy-acetylene will concentrate the heat better and faster. Acetylene alone, and Propylene or MAPP blends are a second choice.

 

Yeah, I agree. My buddy's gas welder was out of gas he was only up for a weekend.