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The "You're an Idiot" restoration

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by benmack1, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. Dec 3, 2010
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Hi All -

    The title for the project "You're an Idiot" is a direct quote from my wonderful wife of 15 years when she saw my latest aquisition. I think she's probably right but who cares, I am having fun and this is the correct way to have a mid-life crisis.

    For those more serious readers, you will probably be disappointed in my progress. I don't have a clue what the heck I am doing. I'll screw up a ton of stuff along the way I am sure, I am going to be SLOW and ask a million dumb questions. I am in no hurry and I'm going to enjoy the project and not make it a job. I have an 8 year old son who has already taken an interest and a 7 year old daughter who's sizing things up as well. My father just turned 75 and he's been hanging around it and as opposed to me, he actually does know what he's doing and it is a good advisor. It's been great already. ...and of course my wife reminds me of her quote everytime she strolls through the shop :rofl:. For those who do have the patience to follow this, I hope to have a ton of pics as I go so it should be fun. I'll also try to keep a sense of humor about this.

    So enough of that, what let's get to it.
    I looked around for about 8 months or so and finally found what I think is a good starting point. It is a 1972 CJ5 with a 232 I-6 and 3 speed manual transmission. The history is I believe I am the 3rd owner (or at least the 3rd family to own it). It has 26000 original miles (I believe that to be accurate based on talking with the PO and looking at old registrations). It has sat idle in a shed for most of the last 10 years. From everything I can tell it is bone stock and not had any hands on it. Here is a pic of it when I got it home on Nov 5, 2010.

    You can see the 03 wrangler in the garage in the background. That one is fun but the CJ is a real jeep!

    [​IMG]

    The only modification I can see is the bigger wheels and tires which are probably 20+ years old. The tire sizes that were on it were 10-15LT. The rims were 10 inch wide rims. The plan is a total stock restoration at least that is the beginning plan.

    [​IMG]

    The left front tire would only hold air for about 5 minutes and it wouldn't start when we picked it up. So we pumped up the tire a couple times and we ratcheted it up onto the trailer with a come-along winch and brought it home.

    [​IMG]

    The big thing I was looking for was little to no body rust (or frame compromising rust). I think I achieved that goal. The body is pretty much rust free except some bubbling on the passenger rocker panel bottom edge and the rear bed is shot. I think those will both be real easy fixes. I wanted some body fixes to try my hand at welding an panel repairs, but not a total cancer project. The frame etc has alot of surface rust but everything is very solid as best as i can tell.

    [​IMG]

    So that's about it for the introduction. I plan ultimately to do a frame off restoration to minimally freshen up everything and learn how things work in the process. I didn't mention, the motor turns over so it isn't seized. I'd like to get it running first, play around in my hay field a bit and let my boy try his hand at driving in the field.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  2. Dec 3, 2010
    EricM

    EricM Active Member

    Southern California
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,019
    Re: The "You're and Idiot" restoration

    Welcome from Southern California!

    It looks like you have a great starting point.
     
  3. Dec 3, 2010
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Re: The "You're and Idiot" restoration

    So here is some more pics when I got it home.

    The bed rust in the rear.

    [​IMG]

    passenger floor pan. There's alot of crap in there but it's actually pretty solid. One pencil sized hole. It may only need some patches welded in. We'll see.

    [​IMG]

    Drivers floor pan. Note the pedal pads, not warn. Again, I think it has just sat alot over the years with little use.

    [​IMG]

    dash and glove box

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hood and windshield frame. The windshield frame is solid. Front and back, underneath etc. I had not seen another one in this good of shape before.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    A little surface rust on the inside but that is very minor.

    [​IMG]

    Even the battery tray is solid.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the bubbling on the passenger rocker panel.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Dec 3, 2010
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Re: The "You're and Idiot" restoration

    A few more pics of the starting point and that's it for tonight.

    Engine bay drivers side. Anything rubber on this rig will need to be replaced!

    [​IMG]

    Engine bay, passenger side

    [​IMG]

    Bottomside of hood

    [​IMG]

    Under the tub, just in front of the rear wheel looking pass to driver side view. I should have mentioned above, the PO said it had been painted. I think you can see the runs in this pic. I think it was originally white though as all I see anywhere on this thing is white under white.

    [​IMG]

    Front fender has a boo boo

    [​IMG]

    frame, front pass side looking from the front. Not sure if someone has painted that frame or what is going on. It is solid at least that I am sure of.

    [​IMG]


    passenger side front axle/knuckle pic from the rear. You can see the heavy surface rust that is on most of the underside. Hopefully that cleans up and everything is solid.

    [​IMG]

    That's enough for today. Please someone let me know if I am posting too many pictures. Not sure what the etiquette is in that regard. This is my first forum post up project.
     
  5. Dec 3, 2010
    EricM

    EricM Active Member

    Southern California
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,019
    Re: The "You're and Idiot" restoration

    I don't think you will get many complaints from us. We love pictures.
     
  6. Dec 3, 2010
    schaapveld4

    schaapveld4 1966 cj5 and 1980 cj7

    Milton WI
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Messages:
    52
    looks like a great start!
    I recommend this manual for tearing things apart, but there are other good ones too
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Dec 3, 2010
    Rondog

    Rondog just hangin' out

    Parker, CO
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,918
    Welcome from Denver! That Jeep should clean up very well, IMO. And a couple of your photos provided me with some details I was needing!

    BTW, you provide you wife with a home like that, and she calls you an idiot for wanting a hobby? Sounds like my wife. Looks like a beautiful place. If you tell us you have a private shootin' range out back, there's gonna be trouble.....
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2010
  8. Dec 3, 2010
    54cj3b

    54cj3b Member

    evergreen colorado
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    236
    heck that's show room condition compared to what I started with and my wife backed me on my decision to build mine even though I already have over $10,000 into it already and yes your son will one day be the lucky new owner as I plan with mine than his son ect
    You have a good head start take advantage of it good luck
    this is what I started with [​IMG]
    show this to your wife and she will see you did good
    [​IMG] And if she wont let you keep it let me know I'll be more than happy to take it off your hands;) just don't tell my wife :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2010
  9. Dec 4, 2010
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,102
    Tell your wife I said that for an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing that you're a pretty damn good judge of Jeep flesh :)


    Great find, looks like you've got a very pleasurable re-build ahead of you- just enough issues & variety to keep it an interesting learning experience without any major headaches.


    H.
     
  10. Dec 4, 2010
    Old Bill

    Old Bill Aggressively passive....

    Really Southern...
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    822
    You've got a great Jeep and a great attitude. With a little time, you'll do just fine.

    FWIW, My wife told me the same thing when I got Old Bill and decided to do full restore instead of just making him run. I took it as a challenge, and 10 months later, she took it back.

    You will only get yelled at for not posted enough photos.
     
  11. Dec 4, 2010
    technologyteacher

    technologyteacher Member

    Elkin NC
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    897
    Solid looking Jeep. Was it a local find? most of the Jeeps I've seen have had a bigger rust problem than what you have on the surface. I'd second the Jeep Rebuilder's Manual, and a Factory Service Manual.

    Have fun and let your boy be as involved as he can.
     
  12. Dec 4, 2010
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Thanks for the kind comments folks. I appreciate the confidence boost.



    Well, I don't have an official range, but I have about 16 acres and do shoot out back from time to time :)


    I have one. A buddy of mine gave me the Moses Ludel manual. The pictures aren't easy to see in that manual though. These forums and all you guys are the best resource from my reading.



    Yep, it was local. Found it just west of Winston-Salem. I too was surprised at the rust situation. It was about a 100 mile drive to look at it. Saw it on CL and thought what the heck I'd drive out on a nice Saturday afternoon 'just to look'. In fact I told my wife I wasn't going to buy anything that day as I was walking out the door. I got there and thought uh oh, I better grab this one. So I made the deal and then made the call sheepishly as I was driving home. It was good it took me 90 minutes to drive home, she was able to calm down a bit. I make fun, but she's tolerant of my hobbies and I hate to say it but this isn't the biggest mess I've ever gotten into in the name of hobbies.

    The PO was a real nice gentleman. It was his grandfathers jeep and his granddad was the 2nd owner. I think he bought it around 1981-2 and it had 15K miles on it. Obviously they didn't use it too much and it sat since 2001. His grandfather passed away awhile back and I think he held on to it for sentimental reasons. He finally decided it was time to let it go. I think he was happy to sell it to someone who at least has the desire to restore it rather than run the hell out of it. They appeared to be good honest hard working folks and I was happy to shake his hand and make a deal. It's great to run into good folks like this because there are so many other jackwagons out there that are trying to take advantage of people.
     
  13. Dec 4, 2010
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    So I have done a very minor amount of work to it so here goes. Again, heavy on the pics.

    The rig had sat since 2001. It was outside when I bought it, the PO had drug it out of the shed when I came to look. I noticed some smell but not too strong. Well, I got it home and backed the trailer into the pole barn and noticed a very strong smell. I'm and organic chemist by training and the chemical smell hit me like a brick. I thought, I better get this thing cleaned up or my whole building is going to reek from the old varnished gas. I also noticed from the trip home there was fuel leaking from the top of the tank and dribbling down the side (from the sloshing during the trip).

    So fuel tank had to be drained. I couldn't get a siphon going so the tank had to come off immediately.

    Here is the view just before we started.

    The beavertail on the trailer was a perfect work place to lay on and get after the tank. Note the arrows in this pic. I'll mention a little later.

    [​IMG]

    I downloaded a 72 technical service manual from a website called trailforge. That was a coup! Great diagrams. I would have been scratching my head on how to get the brackets off if not for the diagrams. I hope this note helps someone else as well.

    I got the filler hose off the tank. Not too bad. There is also a smaller vent hose of course. Easy to see but just to note, there are 2 hoses.

    [​IMG]

    Then I got the skid plate off. Skid plate was rock solid, just surface rust. Bolts for this were obvious even to me. There were two brackets in the front (with 2 bolts in each) and a series of bolts in the back that I was able to get through the openings in the bumper and tub.

    [​IMG]

    Got the front bracket lose on the tank (a single bracket that fastens to the seam in the center of the tank in the front. Then I started to try and loosen the rear tank support brackets. I could see a bolt from the bottom but the whole bolt was turning. I had no idea how to get a wrench on that bottom bolt. Well, come to find out after looking at the diagram, these brackets are about 3-4 inches and an L on top and bottom. So the top ones are easily accessible on top of the frame. Those two arrows in the above pic are the places you can get a wrench in. I actually broke both bolts off on these. I guess they were tired after 38 years. Funny enough all the other bolts I removed on this task came out with no problems.

    There is also a cannister under the drivers side rear corner that is a tank vent cannister. I didn't get a pic but it has 5 hoses attached to it. 4 are vents directly to the hose and the other one runs across the top of the tank and I think goes up to the front and is part of the emissions venting into the valve cover. Not sure if that is correct or not. I have to track that down. Eitherway, just get those hoses off. Then the fun begins.

    It had about 7 gallons of fuel in the tank. Old varnished stinking fuel. I am about 6 ft tall and weight 267lbs. I am fat and big. It was all I wanted to handle trying to wiggle that tank out of its spot. Oh, the last line is the actual fuel supply line that attaches to the top center of the tank. There was enough slack in the hose I was able to drop the tank a few inches and remove that line. All are held on with crimp clamps.

    I got the tank down and there were several pencil sized holes in the top of the tank and the corners. Fuel as slopping out of those. Stinking fuel, that was a noxious odor. As I said, I am a chemist and deal every day with various smells, that one was all I cared to smell. The tank was rotten. I was surprised because everything around it - the frame, the bottom of the tub, the brackets etc were solid as could be. I guess water in the fuel from condensation etc was the culprit. It was the top of the tank that was shot, not the bottom. Fuel was always in the bottom I guess and no air could get to the inside bottom to rust and rot it.

    Here is a pic of the bottom of the tub that is above the fuel tank area. Clean metal. I haven't touched it, that is how it looked when the tank came down. A little surface stuff but the metal is solid. It's funny because that is that pan that is rusted so bad on top. The tub framing metal or whatever your call the formed bands that the sheet metal is attached to seems solid. I think I can just put that pan in without much trouble down the line when I get to it. Notice, that rear frame and cross member looks good. The bracket in this pic hanging down is the one the skid plate bolts to.

    [​IMG]

    Another pic of the drivers side underside. I'll definitely need a new exhaust system. That baby is in rough shape.

    [​IMG]

    Here is looking from the back to the front with the tank removed. I need to crawl under and clean up the bell housing. I read somewhere that the gear ratio should be tagged on there. I just would like to see the number. I guess it should be a 3.73:1 if it is stock.

    [​IMG]

    Here is another one of the underside. You can see the main fuel line in this one.

    [​IMG]

    Well, mission accomplished. Fuel tank off, smell gone! It didn't start before, that was at least part of the reason why. Fortunately the carb and fuel filter in the front do not smell like that fuel and the filter was dry. I hope that it was dry up there and not gunked up. My plan is to try and start it with a gallon gas can directly to the fuel pump to see if she'll run. I don't want to put a new fuel tank on until I clean up the frame and start to reassemble.

    I am anxious to see if it will start but have a couple things I need to take care of first and it's hard to find alot of time to work on it. I have a pretty demanding day job and work some long hours during the week. An 8 and 7 year old also have some responsibilities and they have to come first. Enough for this part.
     
  14. Dec 4, 2010
    technologyteacher

    technologyteacher Member

    Elkin NC
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    897
    I'm a little west of Winston, about 45 minutes west. Where did you find it. Not that I need another jeep We have two as well.
     
  15. Dec 4, 2010
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    I found it in Davie county (I think that is the name of the place, it was way out in the country) just from an individual on Craigslist. Nice area out that way.
     
  16. Dec 4, 2010
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,212
    Good luck that's a nice starting point.
     
  17. Dec 7, 2010
    dakardad

    dakardad New Member

    SLC Ut
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    26
    Re: The "You're and Idiot" restoration


    "A little surface rust on the inside"

    Rust what rust, Ohh, Ohhh, Ohhhhhh, you mean that 'surface etching'?

    Just kiddin. Nice Jeep. not to many left like that anymore.
    Have fun!:):)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  18. Dec 7, 2010
    alpha&omega

    alpha&omega New Member

    Franklin, Tennessee
    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    I wish I had that good of a start ... Great looking Jeep, I have my 71's body off and doing a total restoration. If you don't want to go back with the old side mount wheel and want to sell that marker light let me know that's one piece I have not been able to find for my Jeep...

    One thing I have learned about my Jeeps restoration ... They sure come apart alot faster than they go back together...

    Randy
     
  19. Dec 9, 2010
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    It's cold as all get out in NC this week and I've managed to catch some upper respiratory stuff somewhere (my wife thinks I got it from standing out in the shed oogling the Jeep in the cold - I don't think it works that way but who knows maybe she's right :rofl:) - so I am doing some inside work on the computer trying to sort out a few small parts. One thing giving me fits is finding what looks like a grommet for the PCV valve. I can't find that part break down schematic nor can I find a part on any of the typical websites. I have pointed to what I am looking for in the pic. I've see others but none listed for my motor. Anyone know where I can get one for a 72 232 motor? OEM part number would be awesome if anyone has one to post up!

    The darn part probably will cost a buck but I can spend 10 hrs looking around like a fool.


    [​IMG]
     
  20. Dec 9, 2010
    napaguy

    napaguy Banned

    goldendale wa
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    441
    Your local parts store should have a grommet that will work
     
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