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Why won't it just run...?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by bdford123, Sep 16, 2008.

  1. Sep 16, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    107
    Here is the story,

    Bought 1961 cj5 last year in August....ran great for about six weeks, and soon started to lose power when moving uphill. I live at 9600 feet and pull hills all the time just to get home. I soon discovered that the plugs were being fouled frequently and I believe the loss of power was due to it running on only 2 or 3 cylinders. I have a mechanic friend of mine take a look at it briefly and we adjusted the dwell. Since then I did pull apart the carter yf carb and attempt to rebuild, but it ran even worse after wouldnt even start after I put it back on... I just bought a new solex carb and installed and have also put new plugs and cables on too. It started today and ran for about 20 min at idle before stalling out and refusing to start again. I looked at the plugs and they were completely black and gummed up. I was attempting to adjust the timing but couldnt get enough of a spark on the first cable to even make the timing light flash. I am thinking now that it is the ignition and I should get a new pertronix ignition...

    Pertinent info

    fhead 134
    new solex carb
    new starter
    new cables
    dwell has been checked but about a year ago and it has been sitting for 9 months


    any help diagnosing a next step would be appreciated

    thanks
    Ben
     
  2. Sep 16, 2008
    53A1

    53A1 Member

    Kern Co. Ca.
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    447
    I would do a compression and leak down test asap. Maybe oil is burning in the cylinders. Might want to do a full tune up - wires, cap, points, condenser and ballast resistor. If the resistor is bad you will get weak spark. Try to take an ohm reading.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  3. Sep 16, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    107
    I forgot to mention that I had done a compression test and it checked outon all 4...I am drawing a blank as to what the ballast resistor would look like or where it would be...My service manual got packed up in storage several months ago.


    Thanks
     
  4. Sep 17, 2008
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
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    4,275
    Put a fresh set of plugs in and I'll bet it fires. If it does, then you will likely find that you have an over-rich condition most likely due to your altitude.

    I use a vacuum gauge to set the idle mixture, try for the highest vacuum reading you can get. If it still fouls the plugs, then you are going to have to dig into the carb to solve it.
     
  5. Sep 17, 2008
    bobo

    bobo Sponsor

    canby or
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    Aug 12, 2008
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    ballist resisters are used on 12 volt systems with points because any thing over 8 volts will cause your point to fry. Some gms use a resiter wire. If you have a 12 volt system I would recommend petronic . Its cheap and bullit proof. Coils can cause nightmares.when cold they will work fine but when they get hot they expand and will fire intermitently because they have a wire in the winding that has broke.
     
  6. Sep 17, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    107
    the carb is brand new solex that I put on today. I know the altitude creates rich mixes and have been attempting to battle that with making sure that the plugs are firing as hot as possible. I have stepped up a grade on the plugs and now I just wanted to make sure that the electrical part was operating.
     
  7. Sep 17, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
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    107
    oh yeah, one more thing, brand new gas tank and gas pump...just bought a multitester online and am going to go through coil, distributor, etc and see what's going on.
     
  8. Sep 17, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
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    107
    just finished with another post and it is my new understanding that there are not ballast resistors on f-heads...explains how I wouldn't be able to identifiy it on my jeep...working on points tomorrow.
     
  9. Sep 17, 2008
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,793
    No ballast resister on it.
    Turn the mixture screw on the solex in till it lightly bottoms in it's hole, take it out to 1 and a half turns out from there. try to start it. should start if there is any juice (spark) to the plugs. Slowly turn it in until the motor starts to stumble,then turn it out to where it is running smooth. That should take care of the rich running condition.

    Is your ignition wiring in good working order?:?
     
  10. Sep 17, 2008
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Mar 29, 2007
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    5,916
    Ballast resistor has no relationship to engines. The ballast resistor works in conjunction with the coil. If the coil you are using sez (use with external resistor) then you will have to use a ballast resistor (any FLAPS GM part) or a special ign resistant wire usually about 3 feet long with a heavy pink or orange coating. If you dont want to mess with this just get a coil that has internal resistor and use regular wire.
     
  11. Sep 17, 2008
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    Nov 6, 2002
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    4,275
    There would only be a ballast resistor in there if the Jeep had a 12-volt system. Was 12v available in '61 or were they still 6 volts?

    In any case it is not likely that the ballast resistor would cause your issues, they tend to either work or not.
     
  12. Sep 18, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
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    107
    At this point, I am really thinking that it has to be the ditributor giving it a weak spark, which over a little bit of time (10 minutes or so)compounds into filthy spark plugs and it then putters out and refuses to start. Meter on the way, and I will leave it parked until it can be checked out.

    Anyone mind going over in detail where I can check the electrical from the spark back to the starter, i.e what I am looking for at what points and how to check it...

    Thanks
     
  13. Sep 18, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
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    107
  14. Sep 18, 2008
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    Sep 20, 2002
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    Replace the coil, cap and rotor.
    Also new points and condensor... even though they aren't that old...
    I'm thinking your weak spark is either the coil (my 1st choice), or the condensor.

    Once you get it running right... then buy the Pertronix for an even bigger improvement.
     
  15. Sep 19, 2008
    Dabblin

    Dabblin Barn fresh 67 cj5

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
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    63
    An oft neglected electrical connection is the body of the distributor to the engine block. I speak from experience.
    This might not be your problem, but the nature of the issue might help track down a loose or corroded/dirty connection somewhere else. I had to remove my distributor and emory cloth the mounting-adjusting plate and the flange it bolts to.
    If I tried to time it, I had to loosen the bolt and turn the distributor body to adjust the setting, I'd loose the grounding connection and the timing would get weak, so bad that the induction pickup couldn't pick up the spark pulse. I'd start swearing at the Timing light and go have a couple of beers then wait a week before trying again.
    After that was sorted out I had another problem with the points.
    Seems the key was left on and the points heated up and melted enough of the plastic bushing to allow arcing at the spring to base plate and pivot to pin. That caused havoc too.
    Best of luck to ya
     
  16. Sep 20, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
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    Infuriating as it may be, it seems that the more that I learn or read, or hear about from other jeepers, the more likely that I may have done something wrong or am going through some self inflicted issue...While there are quite a few other areas of educatoin or experience that I can pull from, it is incredibly frustating for me to be so ignorant when dealing with my so called "simple" CJ. Starting from the battery, could someone please walk me through what I would look for in trougleshooting the issues that i am having with my spark! I am willing to spend time, and am funny enough able to perform this work, I simply am not knowledgable enough to troubleshoot.

    Thanks for any help.

    Ben
     
  17. Sep 20, 2008
    bobo

    bobo Sponsor

    canby or
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    Trouble shooting is some times the most difficult thing . When you first had a problem you played with fuel system then the electrics,which compounded the issue. one of the easiest solution now would be upgrading to 12 volts. which wood be a battery and internally regulated. alt and a petronics .there a lot s of thread that cover this up grad in tech section. Once install dump a tablespoon or two in the carb throat. if. it starts and runs for a feww second. then move on to fuel system. PS if you get a petronics ignition I would also get there coil also keep reading the thread you find you answer these guys are good INHO.
     
  18. Sep 20, 2008
    frooks

    frooks New Member

    CO
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11
    I agree with the condenser idea. I've worked on a couple of Jeeps ( one w/ an I4 and one w/ a V6) that wouldn't start and finally changed the condenser. They started right up. It's a pretty cheap test.
     
  19. Sep 21, 2008
    mdbeck1

    mdbeck1 55 Willys CJ5

    Oklahoma
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    201
    12 Volt or 6 Volt Battery? Mine was originally a 6 Volt system but the PO pulled all the wiring and put in enough wiring to start it on 12 V. Lots of interesting issues.

    Get a voltmeter, turn the switch on, and check the voltage reading on both sides of the coil. If it's a 6 Volt system it should read around 6 VDC on both sides. It will read somewhere around 9 VDC if it's a 12V system. If it shows 0 Volts you have a grounding problem between the points and the coil (or a bad coil). To verify unhook the coil on the distributor side and recheck. If you have voltage it's a ground between the coil and points. You might also verify that the wires going through the distributor housing aren't grounding out. Mine did that and the coil read zero voltage on the distributor side when I turned the switch on but only intermittently. I accidentally left the switch on while working on something else and saw it arc.

    I'd still replace the coil, points, and condensor. They've probably been on there for years and will cause you all kinds of problems.
     
  20. Sep 21, 2008
    bdford123

    bdford123 Member

    Breckenridge, CO
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    107
    Thanks for the input and ideas...

    It is a 12 volt system. I am beginning to think there is a grounding issue between the coil and the destributor. There is a break in the wiring between the two that has been crimped and taped, and I am suspicous that it is grounding onto the block. I will check it out and let you know...
     
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