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Stumped NO MORE!!! :-)

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Hippo393, May 20, 2004.

  1. May 21, 2004
    Hippo393

    Hippo393 Jeepless

    Charlotte, NC
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    Thanks! I'll letcha'll know tomorrow. Rotor does point to #1 position, so I'm stymied.

    For fun I might just pull the dist. and put it 180* off. Might get lucky . Not sure what else to do!
     
  2. May 21, 2004
    James P. Enderwies

    James P. Enderwies Sponsor

    Lake Havasu City, AZ
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    Hippo: In your 1st post you did not mention that you had the + from the starter (batt) going thru a ballast resistor. If you didn't, you could have fried the points or condensor. They are anly supposed to have 9 v or something like that going to the coil.

    Check your points and condensor.
     
  3. May 21, 2004
    gte636p

    gte636p Member

    smyrna, Ga
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    Sep 23, 2002
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    it should still crank up and sound normal being 180 out... just won't pull anything.
     
  4. May 21, 2004
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Sep 20, 2002
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    Running them for that short a time wouldn't hurt them in my experience. I've seen a Jeep that ran for a couple years with no resistor inline. Just replaced the points and condensor more often. ;)
     
  5. May 21, 2004
    oldjeep

    oldjeep Sisyphus at work

    Victoria, MN
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    Sep 19, 2003
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    267
    If you have it wired up right, it's pulling a full 12V through the coil during starting anyway.
     
  6. May 21, 2004
    steverdenver

    steverdenver Member

    Denver,(Littleton...
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
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    61
    Won't Start

    On odd-fire Buick V6s

    1) Number one Dist Spark plug wire on the CAP MUST go to Number One Cylinder. (Other wise the timing will be off 50 degrees

    2) Timing Chain Failure is common--- they slip out due to the cam thrust moving as much as 1/4 inch and distroy the timing chain and cam gear teeth -- as often as 30K miles. This throws off both Valve timing and Spark timing..
     
  7. May 21, 2004
    Hippo393

    Hippo393 Jeepless

    Charlotte, NC
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    I still get good spark, so that means the points are good, right? :?

    I did have a ballast resistor originally, but when that didn't work I ditched it. Might have had it wired wrong--It went from +batt to ballast to +coil. Isn't that right? Smoke came from the ballast after a couple minutes. That baby was hot!

    I guess timing chain is ok. Rotor rotates fine and I set timing while cranking. Not sure what else to do?!?
     
  8. May 21, 2004
    James P. Enderwies

    James P. Enderwies Sponsor

    Lake Havasu City, AZ
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    Wow! You "Smoked" the ballast? :shock:

    I really don't think that there is any + or - side of the resistor. It "resists" either way. Just will need a new ballast to keep the points good.

    To check your timing chain, put a socket on the crank and turn back and forth while observing the movement of the rotor. A "little" slop is acceptable.
     
  9. May 21, 2004
    Tony T

    Tony T New Member

    Williamstown, Ma
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
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    6
    To get timing in ballpark (assuming timing chain and dist/wires are setup proper) turn motor to 5 degress before TDC on #1. Take off dist. cap and rotor (dwell/point gap is O.K. right? If not gap points or set dwell before starting out). Put a rolling paper between point contacts (only works good with new/smooth point contacts) then turn dist. until the paper can just be pulled free from the contacts, tighten down dist. hold down. You should be within a couple degrees of 5 before TDC.

    This works when you fry the points out in the woods too. File the contacts down flat w/sandpaper (you got some in the toolbox don't you?) then gap w/matchbook cover before using "rolling paper" trick above
     
  10. May 21, 2004
    dauntless_powered

    dauntless_powered SUB Chief

    Groton, CT
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    tony thats a pretty cool trick...i will have to remember that
     
  11. May 21, 2004
    James P. Enderwies

    James P. Enderwies Sponsor

    Lake Havasu City, AZ
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    Believe it or not, my Mom showed me the "match book" trick back in the '60's. R)
     
  12. May 21, 2004
    1969_CJ5

    1969_CJ5 Sponsor

    North Carolina
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    Feb 14, 2004
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    I had the same issue... It was as simple as having the firing order wrong... If needed, send me an email and I can send you a pic of the correct order...

    My guess would be firing order or 180 degrees off TDC.

    Good luck
     
  13. May 21, 2004
    gte636p

    gte636p Member

    smyrna, Ga
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
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    i'm going to say it's a timing problem somewhere. i've had mine running for a week 180 out one time and finally opened the hood to see why it wasn't pulling as good as it should... never let "friends" touch the cj. if he's only trying to get it to crank it'll crank and idle right nice at 180 out. a compression test would tell ya if the cam shaft was in time with the crank... judging by what you've done that might be the problem.

    just for fun, have you held the plugs against the block while cranking to see if it's actually firing at the plug? i know you've been shocked real hard, but if you're carefull and don't ground yourself out it won't hurt at all... trust me, i've had the joys of that shock myself. if that'll fire and you're spraying starting fluid down things it should fire up one way or another... unless there's a timing problem.
     
  14. May 22, 2004
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Don't know what else to add since everyone's given so much advice, but all I can say is make sure the wires go to the right plugs. I couldn't get the timing right because the #1 wire went to the wrong side of the engine.1 and 3 were switched? something like that.

    #1 should be in front cylinder, left bank.

    Just found this. Maybe it'll help.
    here's a primary circuit test in my jeepster manual(for 225v6)

    "Excessive voltage drop in the primary circuit will reduce the secondary output of the ignition coil, resulting in hard starting and poor performance. Inspect all primary wiring for loose or corroded terminals, worn insulation, and broken strands.

    a. Connect voltmeter positive (+) lead to the positive battery terminal, as shown in fig. c-16. The negative lead(-) is connected to the iginition(+) side of the resistor on Dauntless V-6 engine. The negative lead(-) is connected to the ignition primary of the coil on Hurricane F4 engine. Connect a jumper wire from the distributor primary terminal of the coil(the small wire going to the distributor) to the ground. Be sure all lights and accessories are off.

    b. With the ignition switch on, the voltage should not exceed 0.4 volts. More than 0.4 volts indicates excessive resistance exists in the battery cable, ignition switch wiring, or the ignition switch. The excessive resistance may be located with voltmeter checks across each section of the circuit.

    c. Remove the jumper wire from the coil. Connect the voltmeter positive (+) lead to the distributor terminal of the ignition coil. Ground the negative (-) lead of the voltmeter.

    d. Note the voltage with the ignition switch on. If battery voltage is indicated, the distributor breaker points are open. Rock the engine to close the points. Voltage less than 0.2 volts indicates the points are satisfactory. Voltage more than 0.2 volts indicates burned or high resistance in the ignition points or a poor distributor ground."

    Hope that makes sense and helps some.
     
  15. May 22, 2004
    1969_CJ5

    1969_CJ5 Sponsor

    North Carolina
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    [​IMG]

    I am sure most of you are thinking..... "why is this here?"

    But something as simple as this could keep it from running.... Verify you have your new Dist wired correctly.

    All you gurus out there, let me know if i drew this correctly. I did it from memory..... :?
     
  16. May 23, 2004
    James P. Enderwies

    James P. Enderwies Sponsor

    Lake Havasu City, AZ
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    Looks pretty good to me. On mine #1 is about where your #2 is. Doesn't make any difference as long as the rotor is pointed there too and it's at TDC on #1 cyl.
     
  17. May 23, 2004
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    I'm thinking that the timing chain has slipped a tooth or three. Alan, did you hear this engine run before???
     
  18. May 23, 2004
    Hippo393

    Hippo393 Jeepless

    Charlotte, NC
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    Hey thanks '69 CJ5. You did that on your 'puter?? I saw something like this in a Chilton's manual, so I know it's wired correctly. Steve: no I've never heard this run before. Not sure how to check on the timing chain? Would a skipped tooth or two cause it to not start at all?

    Thanks for all the tips. Keep 'em comin! I'll be tinkering on it again tomorrow night.
     
  19. May 24, 2004
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    You betcha Alan. if the chain slips even a single tooth, it will mess up not only the ignition timing, but the valve timing too. The compression will be wayy low too, since the valves will be out of synch with the pistons.

    When you crank it, does it seem to "whump whump whump" like a normal OF or does it seem to be a smooth, continuous-speed crank?
     
  20. May 24, 2004
    Hippo393

    Hippo393 Jeepless

    Charlotte, NC
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    Steve it sounds like it turns over as it normally should. The only time it's erratic was when I was messin' with the timing. Once I musta had the dist. turned too far (advanced?) because when I got the occasional fire/explosion out the carb, it caused the pistons to stop for a split sec and then it resumed cranking.

    It cranks as if the lead coil wire is pulled--over and over but doesn't "catch". :evil: I'm going out to fiddle with it now. I'm hoping that a couple days off has given me a clear head to figure out what I've done wrong. I'm sure it's something DFO. :D
     
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