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Question - repacking front bearings

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Dano50, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. Jan 29, 2007
    Dano50

    Dano50 New Member

    Keno, Oregon
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    38
    Okay, here are the facts...1980 CJ5, just bought. Was playing with it Sunday to center the steering wheel, a fifteen minute job. (Yeah, right)

    Well, one thing led to another and I checked the play and freewheeling of the front tires. Found that the driver's side tire was tight from the brake pads rubbing on the rotor. The face of the rotor needs to be re-surfaced (minor rust and discoloration form sitting so long without use). Pulled the assembly, thought to myself, why not re-pack the bearings, after all, I have the previous owner's Chilton's.

    Okay, grease still good, bearings appear almost new, one of the previous owners had used a screw driver to torque the inside and outside nuts and there is a retainer type keyed washer (actually, two, one on the inside between the setting nut and bearing, and one located between the "setting nut" and outside locking nut).

    The keyed washer between the set nut and locking nut was all boogered up, looks like someone tried using one side as a locking tab (several times). The edge looks like a badger chewed on it for lunch.

    I've ordered new spline sets (one for each side) from JC Whitney, along with the socket wrench tool, to replace the ones I have (about 10 days out). This was probably overkill. I am having the rotor faces re-surfaced and need new break lines (old ones starting to fall apart).

    Questions:

    The Chiltons does not mention bending the outside washer up to form a tab after setting the torque. Do I need or want to? Is this normal? The washers do not appear to be thin enough to easily bend an outside edge outward to lock the outside nut.

    Should this washer be bent inward (toward the axle)? This would tend to lock the setting nut's position since the key spline would keep this washer from moving? If bent outward, how do you all do it easily since the washer is inside the hub and a screw driver appears weak?

    The Chiltons says to torque the inside "set nut" to fifty pounds and then back off a touch(quarter turn). The outside locking nut is to be torqued to fifty pounds...this sound right?

    You all have been a wonderful source of information. Thanks for any input you may have.

    Dan
     
  2. Jan 29, 2007
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    3,437
    Torque sounds right Dan. I torque the inner to 50 and back it off 1/6 turn, or 1 "flat" of the nut, not a full quarter turn.... then the outer to 50.

    IIRC the tabs (key spline) on the washer are on the inside and correspond to a relief cut into the spindle. That tab is not intended to be bent. The washer itself also should not be bent over the nut. If a bend was intended there would be a bend tab on the outside of the washer... which there is not.

    A spindle socket is the right tool to use... never a screwdriver, punch, chisel as some guys do... you did good ordering new hardware and a socket.
    Most of us avoid JC Whitney... check a place like www.4wd.com for this kind of stuff. may be cheaper and better quality...

    Enjoy your new rig!! :)
     
  3. Jan 29, 2007
    Dano50

    Dano50 New Member

    Keno, Oregon
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
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    38
    Lynn:

    You confirmed what I thought, no tab and no bend, just use torque. BTW, I will try the www.4wd.com site...

    Thanks for the reply...some of the "backyard" mechanics in the neighborhood had chimed in trying to convince me of the "Locking Tab"...and, knowing each and everyone, I took their "advice" with a large grain of salt.

    Dan
     
  4. Jan 29, 2007
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
    Joined:
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    as Lynn has mentioned, good job by purchasing the proper tool (socket) for the job.

    the lip of the outer washer (the one sandwiched between the 2 nuts) should be bent over one of the flats of the outer locknut.
    This is accomplished by careful prying with a very large screwdriver or prybar and just barely catching the edge of the washer to start the bend; once that is accomplished, you can reposition the pry bar and fully bend the lip over. This prevents the outer nut from loosening, once tightened.
    CAUTION: I like to start the bend by positioning the pry bar against one of the hub bolt hole openings in the wheel hub; there is more material here to pry against; have seen wheel hubs busted by prying in the thinner unreinforced areas of the hub, so be careful.
     
  5. Jan 29, 2007
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    Dano, go with Jim's advice on bending the washer... as will I next time I take mine apart. :beer:
     
  6. Jan 29, 2007
    Dano50

    Dano50 New Member

    Keno, Oregon
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
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    38
    Well, there you go...this is why this forum is a fantastic bit of information. Thank you all for your input. Soon as I can (when the parts come)I will set it up exactly as you all say.

    Dano
     
  7. Jan 29, 2007
    wally

    wally SSSSTER

    upper merrimack...
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    Jun 12, 2005
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    i use a small cold chisel to gently bend the washer over the nut. i don't use a hammer on it, as that wouldn't work to bend it "up". i just use the chisel to pry the washer, as it's beefy enough not to snap.


    i've tried the plastic/ziploc bag idea. it doesn't work for me. :cry: i'll have to stick with getting greasy hands. R)
     
  8. Jan 30, 2007
    grannyscj

    grannyscj Headed to the Yukon

    Anchorage, AK
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    :iagree:
    That's what I used. Chipped the tip off a screwdriver first. Using the chisel makes it real easy though.:v6:
     
  9. Feb 1, 2007
    jeepen

    jeepen Member

    Spokane WA
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    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    110
    you can buy a brg packer form flaps for cheep that hooks to a grease gun and works great I love mine.
     
  10. Feb 1, 2007
    rixcj

    rixcj Member

    Rhode Island
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    Nov 12, 2006
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    351
    Moses Ludel says to bend the outer washer inwards, so that it locks against a flat of the inner nut, then, if necessary,also bend another portion of the washer outwards so that it locks against the outer nut.
     
  11. Feb 1, 2007
    JeepTherapy

    JeepTherapy Sponsor

    Negaunee, Michigan
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    I see a problem with only bending the washer in. The outer nut isn't positively locked at all then. It could (probably won't) back off allowing the washer to release the inner nut. For 20 years I bent the washer over the outer nut. I don't any more. Never had one come loose. I tighten my wheel bearings the way I was taught to do aircraft wheel bearings. While spinning the wheel I tighten the inner nut. After 20 years of tightening them I have given up on using the torque wrench. The initial torque is to seat the bearings and races. Then I back the nut off until it is loose. I then tighten the nut to take up all the free play. Probably better off using a torque wrench, but it works for me. Slap the seconded keyed washer in there and tighten the outer. I check my wheel bearings very frequently. Usually with just a couple kicks to the top of the tire. If I notice anything loose I put the jeep on a jack and investigate further.
     
  12. Feb 1, 2007
    wally

    wally SSSSTER

    upper merrimack...
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    haven't read Ludel's "cj rebuilder's bible", but if the outer nut isn't "locked", it would seem to stand a chance of getting loose over time. there doesn't seem to be any real reason to bend the washer over the inner nut, as it is sandwiched between the inner washer and the outer washer - nowhere for it to "go".
     
  13. Feb 2, 2007
    rixcj

    rixcj Member

    Rhode Island
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    Apparently, you want to lock the inside nut, because that is the one that is set for the bearing preload. Typically, you set it at 50 footpounds, then back off 1/6 of a turn. This means that it is not really tight. If you don't bend a tab over it, it CAN tighten, but you don't want it to.
    To play it safe, you can also bend a tab over the outer nut,also. That one typically won't loosen because it is tight @ 50 footpounds.
     
  14. Feb 2, 2007
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    when driving forward, the rotation of the tire and wheel is the opposite direction in which the nut would tighten itself.
    the inner nut really has no direction to turn; preload keeps it where it's at, and the outer lock nut keeps it in place, when the tab is bent over.
     
  15. Feb 2, 2007
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    JMO - all this talk of torque settings is overly precise. The mechanics at the Jeep dealer always did it by feel, as did I. Tighten it up till there's no slack, then back it off a little. Been a while since I've had a hub off, but I did it quite a few times and never used a torque wrench.
     
  16. Feb 3, 2007
    jeepen

    jeepen Member

    Spokane WA
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    I work on class 8 trucks (smi trucks) the trailers don not have a washer to bend just a ring that takes the palce of the washer and their is nothing to bend over but the ring does lock to the inner nut.
    in response to: when driving forward, the rotation of the tire and wheel is the opposite direction in which the nut would tighten itself.
    one tire would try to tighten the nut and the other side would try to loosen the nut. in class 8 trucks and some doge products the right side wheels have right hand threaded luge nuts and the left side has left hand threaded nuts. this is hoping the rotation of the wheel will help keep the lugs tight. in the newer style wheels the mfg. have quit doing this I think they found out it didnt make a diffrance.

    back to your question I would suggest bending the tab at least backwords if not bouth ways If the tab is too thick to bend easly I would look it up in a manual.
    If you want I will dig through some of my old service manuals.
    I dont work on anything that small so I cant tell you how the mfg wanted it set up.
     
  17. Feb 3, 2007
    mortten

    mortten I can’t put my finger on it 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Peninsula, Ohio
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    The FSM says bend it over.
     
  18. Feb 3, 2007
    CJ-X

    CJ-X Member

    Ohio
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    I agree. Then just bend the washer over the outer nut. The inner nut is already locked by the outer nut.
     
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