1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

What is the differnce in pipe and round tube

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Ducks-Bass-n-Jeeps, May 29, 2006.

  1. May 31, 2006
    BlueFlu

    BlueFlu past owner of some ecj5's

    Hermitage, TN
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,552
    What cha up to Scott?
    Dont make me call you. R)
     
  2. Jun 1, 2006
    Tiredcj6

    Tiredcj6 New Member

    Camrose Alberta...
    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    26
    Ducks Bass N Jeeps i wasnt refering to you as being dumb.. sorry if it read that way.. its not a wise decision to use pipe. does that sound any better?.. jeeze wonder if i can get my foot any further in my mouth!

    any how sorry if i ruffled any feathers..


    I guess the other reason i use dom tubing is my bender is meant for tubing not pipe. and does that stuff make some sweet hand railings too.. sooo nice..
     
  3. Jun 1, 2006
    MCSCOTT

    MCSCOTT Member

    Columbia, Tn
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    905
    This is the main reason I would go with DOM over pipe, it bends easier and most times looks better too. Like I have said before, I have seen pipe cages stand up to a lot, I have also seen them fail. I have also seen the same out of DOM. If you are going to be rolling end over end off of a bluff, either one of them could fail but the DOM stands a better chance of holding up. Most everyone I run around with has run pipe cages for several years, and through several slow rollovers with no problems. However, most of them built their cages back when 1-1/2" sch40 (1.9 O.D. X .145 wall) was $1.00 per ft, compared to $3.00 - $4.00 per ft for DOM. Back then, the price wasn't justified because it is not that much stronger when compared to the $300 or so extra dollars you have to pay. These days, my pipe price is over $3.00 per ft and I can still find DOM for about $4.00 per ft in some places, so for the money I will be going with DOM on my future cages.

    What exactly are you guys expecting your cages to hold up to anyway. These are Jeeps, not race cars.
     
  4. Jun 1, 2006
    willysnut

    willysnut Banned

    Newnan, Ga.
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    654
    Found this info on another "jeep" website;
    Roll Cage 101
    Background and research

    People ask me why I get so passionate about cages. The answer is quite simple: I have been to junkyards. I have seen what happens to the garden variety Jeep upon impact. It is NOT pretty. I also value my health/safety as well as that of my spouse. To that end, I would like to spend some time talking about cages, options, and educating people about some common items you’ll be seeing when you get into looking for a cage. For the purposes of this discussion, we will be sticking to CJ’s, YJ’s, and TJ’s.

    Pricing:
    A decent upgrade to the existing factory sport bar need not be expensive. Common kits will run under $150 for CJ/YJ’s and TJ’s start around $200-300 depending on what you get. A full-blown cage, installed and painted can go as high as you care to pay, but a good one will weigh in around $1000 and up. So realize, this is NOT an all or nothing proposition. A good “starter” cage could easily come in at the sub $300 range.

    Material:
    For the purposes of this discussion, we will stick to structural steel tubing. Many people will debate the relative cost benefits of Schedule XX Pipe, and I do not want to open that can of worms. Let it suffice to say that pipe is measured by the interior diameter (the hole in the middle) while tube is measured by the outside diameter, as such the tools used to bend one differ from those used to bend another. There are three main kinds of tube commonly used for rollcage construction:

    Hot Rolled Electric Welded (HREW): This is the cheapest form of tube, is used in many “kit” applications, and commonly the cheapest option. While it is stronger than the stock material, it is not as desirable as DOM. There is still a very definite seam in this material, when bending make sure the seam stays to the inside of the bend for maximum strength. HREW can be MIG welded.

    Drawn Over Mandrel (DOM): This is mid-grade material and most common cage component. Slightly stronger than HREW in that the interior seam is rolled out during manufacture. Many will point out that DOM is more expensive than HREW. I ask how much is your safety worth? In my personal opinion, DOM is the best material for this type of project that most people can reasonably afford. DOM can be MIG welded as well.

    Chromoly Tube: While chromoly tube has a higher tensile strength than HREW or DOM, it is commonly used more in racing and professional applications. There are several reasons it differs from the other tube we’ve discussed:
    1) it’s markedly more expensive than either HREW or DOM.
    2) Racers like it because you can use thinner material to get the same strength at less weight.
    3) Amateur fabricators typically do not use it because it requires TIG welding and proper heating/cooling to stress-relieve the joints. These are not tools or processes available to the average shadetree mechanic, nor is the weight savings worth it to them.

    Material Size: Common cages for short wheelbase Jeeps are as follows:
    1.75” .120 wall for main hoops and supports.
    1.5” or 1 5/8” .120 wall for supplemental gussets, supports or runners.
    1” .120 wall for grab handles, and ornamental items.
    Mainly, your material will be determined by the tools you are using (bender dies, etc.).

    Buying steel: when buying steel for the DIY’ers remember they want to sell you the most WEIGHT they can in a single transaction, that’s how they make money. Materials get MUCH cheaper the more you order, if you can get several people in together that is typically your best bet. When talking to a sales person, I always make sure to ask what price-breaks they can give me, and how much material I’d need to order to get that break. Another good trick is to get in with a company who orders a lot of steel then have them throw your order in, then you benefit from their volume.
    _________________
     
  5. Jun 1, 2006
    MCSCOTT

    MCSCOTT Member

    Columbia, Tn
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    905
    I also forgot to mention, referring to my race car statement, that I have sold pipe that is in dirt track cars all over Tennessee. I can't remember exactly what was said about it in the regulation book, but I know me and one of the drivers went over it several times and all of the pipe used in these cages have passed inspection for dirt track. I am in no way stating that DOM isn't a much better material, just saying that pipe will work for some things.
     
  6. Jun 1, 2006
    MCSCOTT

    MCSCOTT Member

    Columbia, Tn
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    905
    I was just sittin here thinkin and hittin the crack pipe and I have a question. What kind of responses do yall think I would get if I built a cage out of DOM and painted white with sch40 pvc markings on it. Maybe even put some glue on all the joints to make it look like its glued together. God I'm bored.:)
     
  7. Jun 1, 2006
    jd7

    jd7 Sponsor

    Nacogdoches,Texas
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    only if you paint the body to look like corugated cardboard.....
     
  8. Jun 2, 2006
    MCSCOTT

    MCSCOTT Member

    Columbia, Tn
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    905
    OOOOO, new ideas to make a perfectly good trail rig look like a cheap POS. I may have to try this, just to see the looks on people's faces. R)
     
  9. Jun 2, 2006
    Tiredcj6

    Tiredcj6 New Member

    Camrose Alberta...
    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    26
    talk about no one wanting to steal it.. lol..
     
  10. Jun 5, 2006
    rookieupgrade1

    rookieupgrade1 New Member

    WI
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Deffinatly be good candid camera stuff. Get it marked so you can only see it from the pass seat......then get a shot of the look onthere face when the see the marking in route to the first obstical.... LOL
     
  11. Nov 27, 2006
    4dawudz

    4dawudz Dale

    ADK NORTHERN New...
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    166
    Use tubing for the safety stuff and pipe for the tie ins??? what is the cost diff???
     
  12. Nov 27, 2006
    Executioner

    Executioner Member

    Reading,Pa, USA
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    347
    Please excuse this.. I read the response on the differences between tubing/pipe. But what is black iron sed in nat. gas pipes? thats the first with a definite seam right? That stuff is REALLY tuff meaning the heavy guage black iron pipe. I was debating getting a length of 1 3/4" and torch bend or cut and weld angles to experiment to see if I could DIY my roll cage. If my welding turns out crappy I'll tack and have a shop welded.
     
  13. Nov 27, 2006
    mb82

    mb82 I feel great!

    Charlottesville Va
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,706
    NOOOOOOOOO thats black iron pipe and will shatter easily if hit.
     
  14. Nov 27, 2006
    Executioner

    Executioner Member

    Reading,Pa, USA
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    347
    :shock: Guess I got alot to learning regarding this stuff:oops:

    I'm planning on having one built for me but I'd like to mock up with either copper or elect. conduit so they have an idea what I'd like.. without intruding on this thread. What other than the chrome moly $$$ stuff would be best to get a basic front cage meaning behind seat hoop with 45 deg. pieces on ether side going to back of jeep for around $300 I don't intend to do any rock crawling but more on road so would be fast impact IMHO if the cage is needed for other than looks.
    meaning what material to request what dia. and thickness? the best Bang for the buck so to speak, without going cheap.
     
  15. Nov 27, 2006
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Use 1.5" .120 DOM Pipe - I did mine in 2" as that was the 'standard' I was used to. 1.5" is plenty strong for normal use and (when I bought my pipe) was $7.50/ft/2" vs $5/ft/1.5"

    If you were closer - I would build you one here at home.
     
  16. Nov 27, 2006
    1969 CJ-5

    1969 CJ-5 AZ Native

    Whiteman AFB Misouri
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    154
    I remeber Petersons or someone doing an article on this a couple of years ago. Pipe has a seam that can split, while round tube is extruded in one solid piece with no seam (I think). Better to go with round tube was the point of the article. Sorry I can not find the exact reference, the Wife made me box up all of the 4x mags I had lying all over the desk or throw them out.
     
  17. Nov 27, 2006
    neptco19

    neptco19 That guy....

    Athens, GA
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,381
  18. Nov 28, 2006
    John_pro2a

    John_pro2a Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    62
    I know nothing about this topic, that being the case here's a few thoughts R)

    It seems resonable that pipe with a seam would be weaker than pipe without a seam.

    I wonder if filling the pipes (either with or without a seam) with lightweight concrete would strengthen the roll bar system. It'd be a little tricky to do it, uprights would be easy, the cross pieces would be a little harder to do.
     
  19. Nov 28, 2006
    neptco19

    neptco19 That guy....

    Athens, GA
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,381
    I think it would be almost pointless to try and do that. Reason being by the time you bought the pipe and concrete it would be almost the same price, plus good lord I cant imagine how much it would weigh. Plus it would be adding all the weight high up so the your likely hood to roll over would be severily increased. Just spend the money on the correct material. Let me try and get some pics of a jeep in the parking lot that used pipe and just layed it on its side, yet it bent the entire cage over.
     
  20. Nov 28, 2006
    MCSCOTT

    MCSCOTT Member

    Columbia, Tn
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    905
    The pipe that most people refer to as black iron pipe is really carbon steel pipe, and it will take a pretty hard hit without shattering like cast iron does. However, DOM is a good bit stronger for a cage and a lot easier on a bender. I don't know about everywhere else, but around here the cost difference is nothing like it use to be. The pipe I sell here use to be $1 per ft for 1.9 OD sch40 vs about $8 per ft for 1-3/4" DOM. These days though, with all the steel prices going everywhich way and import quality getting better, and also a bigger demand for DOM, there is nowhere near that much of a difference. Now, my 1.9 OD pipe is about $2.70 per ft because it is easier to get domestic, but I can get import DOM 1-3/4" for $3.50 per ft when I am buying it for my personal use. It is just a little bit higher, but well worth the price difference.

    If it were me, I would definately use DOM on the main cage, and use pipe on the gussets and seat brackets and things like that that wont need to be bent.
     
New Posts