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CJ-2A axle/diff upgrades?

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by georgebudney, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. Apr 17, 2006
    georgebudney

    georgebudney Groundskeeper

    Tempe, AZ
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    I am thinking that it might be time to upgrade my Dana 25 front and Dana 41 rear to a more durable set of 44's.

    My reasoning is that the swap to the bigger V6 225 from the I6 148 that I bought the unit with will end up putting much more stress on what I think are already frail axels (at least up front). As a added bonus, I could do a brake and steering upgrade at the same time.

    Has anybody tried this, or does anyone have any suggestions? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
     
  2. Apr 17, 2006
    66cj5

    66cj5 Jeep with no name

    NorthWest Indiana
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    Re: CJ-2A axel/diff upgrades?

    Best bet in the rear is the 1970-71 flanged dana 44. I don't know much about the 25, but the 27 came stock with the :v6:
     
  3. Apr 17, 2006
    neptco19

    neptco19 That guy....

    Athens, GA
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    Re: CJ-2A axel/diff upgrades?

    In the 41 rear you can swap the spider side gears and put in D44 shafts with out having to change anything else. If you have a locker like a lockrite youll just need to find some 19 spline side gears for the swap. As for the front just take it out like it is and wheel it till it breaks. Unless your running big tires over 33's you should be fine.
     
  4. Apr 17, 2006
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Re: CJ-2A axel/diff upgrades?

    Bank for the buck - Full Float the rear tapered axle. For what it was gonna cost to get a flanged rear 44, and get it to the condition of my tapered 44 - more than a Full FLoat kit costs.

    The only reason I am going to get a 44 for the front (eventually) is so that I can put a selectable locker in. I have not found any other reason <NOT> to use the 27 / upgraded 25 for tires < 33".


    :oops: Now I know why Tim agreed with me, but didn't say so.... Fat fingered that - KEEP THE 27 / 25... FWIW - the rig above is running 31's on a 25 with NO issues.
     
  5. Apr 17, 2006
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    Re: CJ-2A axel/diff upgrades?

    My Dutch viewpoint...why upgrade unless you're breaking stuff? The D25/27 is a better axle than it gets credit for.
     
  6. Apr 17, 2006
    georgebudney

    georgebudney Groundskeeper

    Tempe, AZ
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    Mar 30, 2006
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    First, thank you to everyone for your inputs.

    My concern is that the switch to the V6 is going to roughly double the torque. I am not so much concerned about the rear as I am about the front. On the rear, it is my understanding that the 41 and the 44 are essentially the same, with some changes between semi- and fully floating axles.

    Up front, the model 25 that is currently in the jeep is leaking out of the pinion and will more than likely need to be rebuilt. Now, given that this is all stock, with the ridiculously hard to remove drums, it makes sense to upgrade the brakes to something that will be more accessible.

    On top of the above arguments, I am looking at running 31-1050's, not the stock 28-6.00 tires.

    Once I factor in the price of tools, rebuild kits, and lost time looking for parts, I am close to what Currie Enterprises is asking for a fully rebuilt Dana 44.

    The big drawbacks are that I am losing some of the appeal of a stock ride (but lost that already with the V6 and tires), and that I am not sure if this is at all necessary.

    From what it sounds like from you all, there are options available and opinions for and against the upgrade. This is a topic I think most jeepers have to consider at some point, so I value everyone’s input greatly.
     
  7. Apr 17, 2006
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    IMHO a D25 will easily handle a V6 and 31" tires.

    IIRC I have ~$1200 into my D27 between a rebuild, 11" brake upgrade, and PowrLok, and that's paying for the PowrLok install.

    Just FWIW....
     
  8. Apr 17, 2006
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Depending on what you want to spend, open 27s are cheap or free for the front. If your 25 front is in really bad shape, you could get several 27s for the price of a front 44 or even a 30. A 4.27 30 from an Intermediate is also a possibility. Again, you could buy 3 or 4 4.27 or 4.10 30s for the price of a Curry axle.

    I'd agree with Chuck AKA Warloch re the rear.
     
  9. Apr 17, 2006
    georgebudney

    georgebudney Groundskeeper

    Tempe, AZ
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    Thanks for the help everyone, I think I am going to go the route you all suggest and rebuild/upgrade the 41 to a full floater, then check the condition of the 25 and replace it with a 27 if necessary.
     
  10. Apr 17, 2006
    Vhunter

    Vhunter Member

    Redding, California
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    Howdy, I am from the old school and used to go to the Jeep races in the sixties. I have seen 25's hold up to V8s, a 27 is no stronger than a 25, the main difference is a 27 has a double tie rod knuckle on the passenger side and Spicer Axles. There are plenty of used 27's out there for nothing and if you go to a Jeepster Commando web page someone would probably give you one. There is now way you are going to hurt a 25/27 with a V6. I would try to find a Dana44 for the rear first and like I have posted before. I have used a centered flanged Dana 44 with an offset Dana 18 with no problems. Centered flanged 44's are easier to find than an offset flanged 44. Or find an offset 44 that has tapered axles, and up graded later. I would not spend any money on a Dana 41, in the long term a 44 is money better spent. I think in this new world of Rock crawling rigs with Dana 60's and such that everybody thinks they have to up grade to something bigger than what they really need. Think it out as to what you actually need, search around for stuff and I think you can find some good parts for a cheap and decent price.
     
  11. Apr 17, 2006
    neptco19

    neptco19 That guy....

    Athens, GA
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    The d27 in CJs didnt come with the double hole knuckle from what I remember. And I believe the only diff. in the tapered dana 41 and 44 is the axle shafts and the side gears. I have personally witnessed these stock axles withstand a good bit of abuse and not have any problems in stock form. Just make sure the front joints are in good shape and wheel them like they are.
     
  12. Apr 17, 2006
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Two holed knuckles were never used in closed knuckled CJ axles. They are however an easy swap from Wagons and pickups and were/are a common swap for better steering when combined with other steering upgrades. The 27 does indeed use the better Spicer u-joint axle and is considered an upgrade to the 25.
    I wouldn't recommend using an offset transfer case with a centered diff. You may have had good luck, and I'm happy for that, but I've seen far more Jeeps with issues doing this than not. I agree about not spending much on the 41 as there is limited support/availability for it. However, by upgrading to 19 spline axles, whether a full float or not is a good forward step as they are much stronger than the 10 spline units, whether in a Dana 41 or 44. By the way, can't get a Warn FF in 10 spline. Only 19 or 30 spline. Also, down the road the 19 spline FF or tapered axles will fit an offset tapered axle 44 so even if issues down the road they can be re-used.
    Bear in mind in the '60's the tires didn't have the grip they have now as the technology is totally different. That equates to the possibility of broken parts. I've broken several Spicer axle shafts and sets of spider gears in my old 25 with my V-6. However, most people, with a stock V-6 and 31" tires would not be an issue. I ran for many years before I started having issues and that was due to a heavy right foot, more extreme trails, and 33" tires.
    I guess I would recommend checking out the 25 before condemning it. If all it needs is a pinion seal, then install one, and maybe upgrade the shafts to Spicer U-jointed ones from a 27. If you start having issues with it then upgrade down the road. The neat thing about a 30 or custom 44 front is your brake parts can be re-used on one down the road if needed to save money if you upgrade the 25. The 41 I'd leave alone except for upgrading the axle shafts/side gears UNLESS there is a problem with it now or you wish to go to a gear ratio or Locker/limited slip that can't be had for it. It's not a bad axle at all if in good shape. I would highly recommend upgrading to 11" drum brakes or disc brakes front and rear. This will give you much better braking and eliminate the maintenance issue you've already mentioned. Jumping on the bandwagon of big upgrades is really unnecessary unless you plan on doing some hard core stuff or going large tires. Just my opinion. Nickmil.
     
  13. Apr 18, 2006
    georgebudney

    georgebudney Groundskeeper

    Tempe, AZ
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    I have done some pricing concerning rebuild kits, axles, and gears. The upgrade to 19 spline axles with the appropriate spider gears will set me back around $700 including unforseen items, if no other major repairs or upgrades are needed/desired (i.e. ring, locker, etc.).

    As for the 25, I still have not had a chance to open it up yet but hope to in the next couple of days. If it is in good shape, I am going to rebuild, upgrade the axles and consider myself lucky. If it is not so good, then in comes the 27.

    Thanks for the help from everyone. :) /George
     
  14. Apr 18, 2006
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Who the heck are you pricing this stuff out from? A pair of 19 spline tapered axles, good used should set you back about $150-$200 pair at the outside. Add in new axle bearings, could be $100 if you put in new seals and have someone else press them on. Used spider and side gears, $30. That totals to around $330. Granted, that doesn't take into account a complete diff rebuild or a ff kit, but $700? Seems awful high to me unless you add in the other stuff. If so, then I'd definitely spend the money on a 44 as was mentioned above. Nickmil.
     
  15. Apr 18, 2006
    georgebudney

    georgebudney Groundskeeper

    Tempe, AZ
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    That would be Kaiser Willys, the bulk of the cost is the rebuild kit, however it looks like they are over charging for the spider/side gears, at $110. Good to know, I will keep looking.
     
  16. Apr 18, 2006
    Dybgpn

    Dybgpn New Member

    Las Vegas
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    I have a offset flanged 71' dana 44 rear axle for sale in Vegas if you want to pick it up. has 4.88 gears.....I didn't know anyone makes a full float kit for the model 41 rear.....just the tapered model 44??? go with a dana 30 in the front!!! bolts on and you get disk brakes.!!!!R)
     
  17. Apr 19, 2006
    NoFlyZone

    NoFlyZone Member

    Ridgeville, SC
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    It all depends on who you ask. Ask this same question over at Pirate and when they are done laughing they will tell you that you can't get out of the driveway without a D60 up front and GM 14 bolt in the rear.

    When I upgrade my drivetrain I am going with D44's front and rear. MAybe Waggy, maybe Scout?
     
  18. Apr 20, 2006
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The ff kit is not specific for the 41 but if you change to 19 spline side gears one for a tapered axle 44 will work fine. I've done the conversion before and it works fine. Nickmil.
     
  19. Apr 20, 2006
    charlie

    charlie New Member

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    I have a narrowed 44 (chevy)for the front and an offset full floating 44 for the rear of my 46 2a. I am in the process of finishing building a new frame and using rangler springs this will be my new set up for my 2a with a V6 and 4 speed. It has been a long project and an expensive one, but where could you get more fun for the money?
     
  20. Apr 21, 2006
    farm1810

    farm1810 Member

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    If anyone has any interest, I have front and rear differentials from a 66 CJ5 with factor V6. This is a 44 rear, and 27 front. These have 4.88 gears in both of them. These have around 65K miles on them and I was told have no problems, noises, etc. Prior owner switched to different ratio as he did lots of road driving in the Philadelphia area. I have to get $125 for them, as that would be my break even. I was going to use them for a project, but then have acquired some other rears that I plan to use. I am in Newark, Delaware. R.
     
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