1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Loud Screeching Noise?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Cj5dale, May 13, 2022.

  1. May 30, 2022
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member

    redding ca.
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    619
    I’m thinking this way also even without a return spring it wouldn’t have enough pressure on the throw out bearing to cook it as bad as it is. Something caused it to not fully return or bad adjustment no free play
     
    Cj5dale likes this.
  2. May 30, 2022
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,916
    In post #66 that clutch arm should capture at least half of the throw-out bearing for even throw pressure. That arm does not look right and the bearing seems too short if my memory serves me. As said you need to compare. You will figure it out.
     
    Cj5dale likes this.
  3. May 30, 2022
    Cj5dale

    Cj5dale Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Knoxville, Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2021
    Messages:
    573
    I did notice that the pivot ball was not sitting in the divot in the arm. It was sitting on the rim of the divot.
     
  4. May 31, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    May be obvious, but you shouldn't ask them to help you, and then you order cheaper from RockAuto or something. Quid pro quo.

    Not suggesting that you would; just thought I'd mention it.
     
  5. May 31, 2022
    Cj5dale

    Cj5dale Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Knoxville, Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2021
    Messages:
    573
    Agreed but I wouldn’t do that
     
    Glenn likes this.
  6. May 31, 2022
    Cj5dale

    Cj5dale Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Knoxville, Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2021
    Messages:
    573
    I’m getting ready to take this off. Other than marking it so I can put it back in the same orientation as it is now, is there anything I need to do or be aware of when I remove it? Or is this going to need replacing?

    upload_2022-5-31_19-46-50.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2022
  7. May 31, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    393
    If you are going to replace the clutch and pressure plate, no need to mark it.

    Same goes for the flywheel, it only goes on one way.

    You have gone this far, might as well replace it and have the flywheel resurfaced.

    Be sure the flywheel and clutch disc are spotless before re assembly.
    A clean rag and brakeclean for the flywheel immediately before bolting up the clutch assembly will make you happy!
     
    Cj5dale likes this.
  8. May 31, 2022
    Cj5dale

    Cj5dale Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Knoxville, Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2021
    Messages:
    573
    Yeah I want to replace all of it since I’m neck deep in this.

    Will I need to worry about re-balancing when I reinstall with new clutch and pressure plate?
     
  9. May 31, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    393
    That question may be a bit over my head but I would think no, as the flywheel only bolts on one way.
     
    Cj5dale likes this.
  10. May 31, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,460
    I don't think most engines are rebalanced with a clutch replacement. If you replace the flywheel, yes, get the replacement balanced the same as the one you removed. If this was something you were turning at 7k, it would be much more important. But with a stock engine, I extremely doubt the clutch assembly was balanced with the rest of it to start with.
     
    Andrew Theros and Cj5dale like this.
  11. May 31, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    My understanding is the clutch assembly is neutral balance (ie not part of the engine balance) and its balance is the responsibility of the clutch builder. Engines can be neutral balance too, like inline 6s (also called internal balance), where the external parts do not contribute to the engine balancing. Most (some?) V-engines are external or Detroit balance, where the flywheel or flexplate and/or the harmonic balancer are included with the balanced rotating assembly.
     
    Andrew Theros and Cj5dale like this.
  12. Jun 2, 2022
    Cj5dale

    Cj5dale Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Knoxville, Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2021
    Messages:
    573
    Found some time to get the clutch removed.

    Here’s the flywheel
    upload_2022-6-2_19-17-0.jpeg

    Pilot bearing
    upload_2022-6-2_19-17-46.jpeg

    Flywheel side of the plate (plate is stamped “Borg and Beck” and measures 10.25 inches in diameter.
    upload_2022-6-2_19-18-57.jpeg

    Other side of the plate
    upload_2022-6-2_19-20-24.jpeg

    Clutch housing surface
    upload_2022-6-2_19-21-19.jpeg

    I didn’t notice any real damage. There are no grooves you can feel in the flywheel surface.

    Other than it being worn out do you all notice anything that points to another problem I need to address?

    As you all suggested earlier sounds like I should just replace everything.

    Would the flywheel need to be resurfaced if there aren’t any noticeable grooves worn into it?
     
  13. Jun 2, 2022
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    5,407

    now is the time . do it once and do it right
     
    Cj5dale and Glenn like this.
  14. Jun 3, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5,626
    The flywheel looks pretty good to me.
     
    Cj5dale likes this.
  15. Jun 3, 2022
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,798
    Seems lots of people have trouble with the pilot bushing being of correct size, so measure yours to see how bad it is before replacing it.

    To replace it, fill it with grease, use a similarly sized steel, aluminum or brass rod, place in center of the pilot bushing and hit it hard with a hammer until it drives out the pilot bushing. You will need to add grease until its out. There are other peoples methods that work and I'm sure they will add on. I guess there are also pullers that can work, but this is the method I have always used.

    The flywheel looks good to go, but its always best practice to surface it. I know around where I live, there is no where to get it done. If its not discolored, warped or scored, I would buff it out with a scotch brite pad on a die grinder and go with it.

    Throw out all the clutch stuff including that T/O arm. You need to figure out why it was hitting the cover. You may need a longer T/O bearing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2022
    Cj5dale likes this.
  16. Jun 3, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,460
    I think the answer to that is in post #83. The throwout arm was not riding on the pivot. In addition to not supplying the proper leverage, that cocked the throwout bearing on the transmission bearing retainer not allowing it to slide freely. I would carefully check that bearing retainer to make sure the new bearing does slide freely. If it too got chewed up, it also should be replaced.
     
    Cj5dale, Fireball and 47v6 like this.
  17. Jun 4, 2022
    Cj5dale

    Cj5dale Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Knoxville, Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2021
    Messages:
    573
    Getting ready to order parts. Plan is to replace everything as you all have suggested.

    I called debella’s and they do not carry the clutch for the v6.

    neither does novack or Walcks.

    When I called Walcks, they told me to try to avoid the standard local auto parts stores because a lot of times they just don’t fit/work right.

    I did find a kit from KW but I believe that is a Crown product.

    When I searched this forum, I found that people have used LuK, Ram, and Valeo brands. Some of the results were more than a year old,etc.

    Before I just blindly order one of these, I’d really like to get your all’s guidance and/or hear your personal experience with any of these or other brands you’d recommend.

    I certainly appreciate and respect your all’s expertise in any recommendations you may have.
     
  18. Jun 4, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    This may not be helpful.

    IME (in my experience) the aftermarket sellers are often clueless about the year range and model application of the parts they sell. The best way to source OEM replacements is to look up the part numbers for what you need in the original factory parts book, and search for those numbers. The factory does make occasional mistakes, and the using the PNs is more likely to mistakenly exclude parts, as opposed to mistakenly include them. However, if the part has the original factory part number attached to it, that's your best indication that it will be a legitimate replacement for the OEM part.

    Now, the parts book for '74-80 is cheap; less than $25 on CD-ROM at RockAuto. There is a printed parts book for the earlier Jeeps for sale at Faxon in Riverside CA. It's not nearly as cheap as the later book, however. It's a little too much money for me to buy it and look up parts for you and others. However, if I owned a '70 CJ-5 I would buy it with no hesitation. Maybe someone else will look these up for you, if you provide a list.

    Also to Cj5Dale - you need to put your year, model and equipment in every post. There is a signature file in your profile specifically for this - it will appear at the foot of every post.
     
    Glenn likes this.
  19. Jun 4, 2022
    Cj5dale

    Cj5dale Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Knoxville, Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2021
    Messages:
    573
    Thank you. I’ll update my profile and will look for the parts book. Thanks for the suggestion. I appreciate it.
     
    Glenn likes this.
  20. Jun 4, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    Previously I mentioned another way to approach this - do your best to find the parts you need online, make a list and see if you can find everything that matches specifically to your Jeep, using the online info. Then go to your local parts store and ask them to look up what you need (without the benefit of your list) and order it in. Compare what they found to your list. Compare your old parts to the new parts, on the parts counter, then later at home. Keep everything clean (esp. the boxes) so you can return them if needed.

    I would assemble the bell housing, release arm and release bearing on the front of the transmission and measure its range of movement. Make sure that your new release arm fits on the pivot properly. Then I would put the clutch on the flywheel and measure where it will be in the bell housing. You can also assemble the bell and other parts to the back of the engine and see where it's going to be when the clutch is actuated. I strongly advise you to measure everything you can, and see if those measurements will work when its all together. Look at how much the cable moves, move the arm that much, see how far that moves the release bearing, compare that to the location and range of the clutch fingers.
     
    PeteL, Glenn and Cj5dale like this.
New Posts