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The Square Deal

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by duffer, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Feb 16, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    More photos from the way back machine. These are all from 1975. The engine is the 1970 version of the LT1. It was 11:1, the big small block slant plug heads, a relatively nasty Sig Erson cam, the GM/Winter's aluminum manifold, and a 750 Holley. As one might expect, that was far from ideal off road but geeezzz was it wild on-road with the 5.38 gears. You really only needed the transmission for reverse. It got dumbed down with a set of 76cc, 194 truck heads and a performer cam which worked reasonably well but by that time, the replacement 381 was already going together.
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    46 years later, those valve covers are on the current engine and that battery box remains unchanged. Other than the frame, everything else has since been replaced. Some items have been replaced several times.
     
    SKT, Danefraz, fhoehle and 10 others like this.
  2. Mar 3, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    I purchased my parking Wilwood brake caliper brackets for the full floater rear axle last Monday.
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    The brackets for these will be bolted to the inside of the axle tube flange with the mounting bolts through the flange, spindle, and disc brake caliper bracket.

    The MC4 calipers I purchased are for .810" rotors. To make them work on the 0.875" wide CJ rotors, I added a 0.090 shim. All the fasteners/threads on the Wilwood calipers are SAE.
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    The spindle bolt layout was easy with jpet's cad drawing
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    The other critical dimension is the centerline to centerline distance from the axle center to the caliper mounting bolts. I made a cardboard version of the bracket, added the 5/8" x 3/8" x 1" bushings to the caliper slide rods to get the pads positioned just inside the outer rim of the rotors and then used a transfer punch to mark the location after clamping the caliper in-place.
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    Hopefully I will have the first steel version of the mounting bracket done today.
     
    Danefraz, 47v6, 73 cj5 and 4 others like this.
  3. Mar 3, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    Success:
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    NVBORN, Danefraz, 47v6 and 4 others like this.
  4. Mar 3, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Looks great. I'm curious how they work.
     
  5. Mar 3, 2022
    Steamboat Willys

    Steamboat Willys Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Paddock Lake, WI
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    Mar 1, 2010
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    Looking good. I've got a set of the JPet spindles and am planning the same set up.
    Is that a Dana 30 front caliper and bracket you are using for the service brake?
     
  6. Mar 3, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Yes. Those have been on the present rear axle since sometime in the 80's and have worked well.
     
    Steamboat Willys likes this.
  7. Mar 4, 2022
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    What do you have into the Ebrake price wise? What was your time in fabricating the bracket? This is the answer to my issue using the same basic set up as you to having a functional Ebrake. My rotors are the thick ones, so I would have to buy the other Wilwood ones and I believe they only come in electric.

    At some point it might just be more costs effective for me to ditch the small tube 1950's CJ3b D44 FF setup and go with a custom offset axle... or D300 and have no OD.

    Dilemmas.. Cool weird Rube Goldberg axles or straight souless....:lol:
     
    Fireball likes this.
  8. Mar 4, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    I'll probably have over $400 invested in this. One could probably come up with their own cables but after spending too much time looking at what was available, I just opted for the Wilwood version. These calipers use a 3/8" barrel cable end-apparently not a real common item. I also swapped these calipers left to right so the cables exit rearward. I'm going to route them parallel to the stock axle-frame brake hose. When I did the original frame off build of this machine (the above B&W photos), I had Bendix 11x2 brakes on it and those were hooked up individually to two emergency brake levers mounted between the seats-cutting brakes. I eventually repurposed the left side for the D18 brake and the right for the Warn 5721 winch brake. With the 8274, that winch brake went away and the lever will be repurposed again for these rear manual calipers. If this works well, the D18 brake is going away for a stronger yoke and a little more driveshaft length.

    The FC 150 housing I'm using is 2 3/4" OD so somewhat more beef than the stock 2 1/2" version. I don't think there is any difference in the bearing/seal seats. With the Dutchman moly flanged full floaters and the ARB, I don't think I will be breaking these.

    Are you using the 2 bolt calipers? The rotors for the 2 bolt are 2.205" high while the 6 bolt versions are 2.800. If you are using the 6 bolt brackets, you will need to have an offset in your parking brake mounting bracket. With the 2 bolt, it's just a flat plate. The caliper mounting hole centerlines for my plates were 5.952" from the axle centerline.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  9. Mar 4, 2022
    Steamboat Willys

    Steamboat Willys Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Paddock Lake, WI
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    I'm just starting to collect the brake parts. I will try to find the 2 bolt caliper parts.
    Do you have part numbers for the calipers and rotors?
    Thanks!!
     
  10. Mar 4, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    Rotors are Raybestos 3552R, Calipers Cardone 18-4014 (driver’s side)/Cardone 18-4015 (passenger side). Whatever you do, don't get O'Reilly's Worstbrake versions of these calipers. Used, beat up pistons and screwed up banjo bolt threads. Cardone at least installs new pistons.
     
    Steamboat Willys likes this.
  11. Mar 18, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Except for the spring perches and swapping the service brake calipers, the new rear axle is all together. I'm guessing this is about as far as you can go strength wise for a full floater using Jeep hubs.
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    This is the other piece you need for this conversion to mount the Jeep calipers. Mine came from 4 Wheel Parts sometime in the early 80's and were flame cut and surfaced (0.338" thick) from what appears to have been just plain mild steel 3/8's plate. I think the surfacing was only necessary because of the cutting method. The thickness isn't critical because the caliper mount and the flange mount are both on the same side. Again, jpets layout for the flange holes. Similar to the parking brake bracket, the caliper mounting holes are on a 3.190" radius from the axle centerline and 3.050" apart. The center hole is 2.920" diameter. The caliper mounting holes are 33/64".
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    SKT, Steamboat Willys, blalp! and 5 others like this.
  12. May 14, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    The other end of the Willwood parking brake cables. The plate bolts directly to the cross member. I put the roller on it because my parking brake lever (between the seats) scribs an arc both down and forward. Without the roller, Wilwood's aluminum guide/nut would not likely last long against the steel cable.
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  13. Jul 3, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    A few more bits and pieces that have arrived the past week.

    jpet's 5:07:1 D18 gear set and girdle. He has made this in two versions, the first out of 8620, and then these out of 9310.
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    I will make a piece that ties those together after everything is assembled.

    And rear fender flare material. Jonesco HL 09. Made in UK. These appear to be polypropylene, are flexible, and the OD matches the rear cutout on CJ's perfect. I am going to trim one side off so I have a 6" wide flare with a curled down outer lip.
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  14. Jul 7, 2022
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    How much do you have to cut up the case to install that?
     
  15. Jul 7, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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  16. Dec 18, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    A little update. When I filled the radiator on this thing last spring, I ended up with several antifreeze leaks, all emanating from the engine. I actually paid a professional engine builder a good sum to assemble the long block. Seems he neglected to put any sealer on the head studs, all of which go into the water jacket. To say that was depressing is an understatement. The B has sat pretty much untouched through the summer and fall but now I'm trying to finish sorting out the rear axle before pulling the engine to address it. The rear axle with the Holbrook springs has a severe case of SDS, short driveshaft syndrome. With no shims where I welded on the perches (and they're are REALLY welded), the drive shaft/pinion angles are 5.9 (up), 2.9, and 32.2 for full stuff, ride height, and full droop respectively. The transfercase angles are 2.1, 5.9, and 29.4 for those. The corresponding driveshaft lengths are 13.25, 13.375 and 14.25". I'm pretty sure Tom Woods can build me a double cardan joint driveshaft that will largely alleviate the problems at the transfercase end. I also added 1/2" spacers to drop the transfercase but I can't go any farther on that without building new engine mounts, and radiator shroud, and perhaps even modifying the under radiator cross member and finding a different fan. All a LOT of work. So what to do with the pinion angle? I'm thinking of whittling 7 to maybe 10 degree shims but those would leave the pinion angle above the transfercase at both full stuff and ride height and I suspect the pinion angle will come up even more under load, especially with any wheel hop and the noodle springs. I think I can fit a torque arm in there to eliminate the hop, mounted directly off my housing skid plate and immediately right of the driveshaft. But it will be tight. A limit strap can also be employed. Sort of self defeating but it is an option and easy with the underbed cross member almost directly above the housing cover. Most definitely open to suggestions here.

    I guess pulling the engine, a real pain in the arss on this, is not a total loss. I was not comfortable with the front pinion U-joint oil pan sump clearance and was going to pull the pan for some modification anyway. But--------- Another case of if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.
     
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  17. Dec 18, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    What a pain in the butt. I imagine your builder doesn't do many custom engines like this one.
     
    73 cj5 likes this.
  18. Dec 18, 2022
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    We have a vintage/classic automobile only shop in town and their engine builder (~8k on a bone stock rebuild Ford 302) told them to throw in some head gasket sealer. :susp:
     
  19. Jan 11, 2023
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Welp, received the new rear driveshaft (Tom Woods) yesterday and fitted it up this morning with a couple of Nick's 4 degree shims. Looks like it will work without a limit strap with a little flap disk remediation on the inside corners of the pinion yoke. I don't suspect operation at full droop (rear totally suspended) will actually occur on this and if it does, the speed will likely be 0.5 mph or less. The last time I tried a fully suspended rear axle at speed didn't end well. Maybe get the butt of this thing buttoned up this week. All the new gaskets for the engine are here---------

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  20. Jan 14, 2023
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Short shaft syndrome specs: collapsed 12.5", extended about 17.5". Wasn't enough room for Woods to put their sticker on it----------
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    The only way that spline will pull out is if the rear axle is no longer attached to the Willys-at which point I doubt that will be too big of a concern. I just touched up the pinion yoke and everything now clears. I'm still going to have to pull the yoke on the D18 out about an 1/8" to get the bolts into the double cardan yoke as I still have the ebrake rear bearing retainer on this. That will no doubt break the seal on the thin coating of RTV on the output shaft splines but worth a try before I dump the still new Stalube GL4.
     
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