1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Ramsey Dual Pto - Questions

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Monza, Jan 21, 2022.

Tags:
  1. Jan 21, 2022
    Monza

    Monza New Member

    Canaderp
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2019
    Messages:
    25
    Firstly, a huge thank you is do to the community, there isn't a better resource anywhere for all my dumb questions. With all the help here, my Jeep is currently hibernating away in the corner of the garage waiting for nicer weather; I'm going through all the piles I made in the garage during the rebuild.

    I decided to tackle the Ramsey DP-102 PTO next, as I found it disassembled in one of the 'I'll get to it later' piles. In full disclosure, when I successfully removed the PTO from the transfer case the chain inside was already broken and heavily rusted. I'm not sure exactly where the original chain got off to. I do have all the other parts and the diagram from Herm on how they should all go back together.

    The result:

    PTO_Chain1.jpg

    And

    PTO_Chain2.jpg

    I ended up ordering #50 chain, based on the sprockets it measured out correctly. The fit on the sprockets is good.

    My question is around the slack in the chain. There appears to be quite a bit, enough to touch the case.

    PTO_Slack1.jpg

    When resting in the orientation it would installed, the bottom chain seems to drag on the case.

    PTO_Slack2.jpg

    I believe make it smaller would require removing 2 links, but I think doing so would make the chain far to small to install. I could possibly believe I've got 1 link too many, but I don't see how I would connect the master link.

    Thoughts on sealing it, do I need to make a gasket or can it be sealed with RTV? I'm not sure if I install it without a gasket if the shaft will bind up.
     
  2. Jan 21, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,460
    It appears that the chain has been dragging previously. I'm not sure it's a big issue since whichever side the loading is on will be straight and I doubt most people put enough time on one to seriously wear the case. Dry fit the cover without the gasket. If it drags, you know you will need the gasket. RTV isn't going to contribute anything significant to the clearance.
     
  3. Jan 21, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,717
    There are half links available that have one roller and offset bars with pin to lengthen the master link.
     
    Bondo likes this.
  4. Jan 21, 2022
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,754
    How bad is it? Is "touching the case" going to do any harm?

    Just looking from here, removing even a half link might be too much. Perhaps there is a little wear on the sprockets.
     
  5. Jan 21, 2022
    Monza

    Monza New Member

    Canaderp
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2019
    Messages:
    25
    It's entirely possible that it was designed to run on the case. It will be entirely bathed in oil, so maybe its not destructive. When I cracked the transmission/transfer case/PTO originally it was a mess, water had gotten into it, so I'm not really sure how its supposed to look. I will have to spend some time searching around for the old chain, to confirm the link count.

    I will also document the bearings/seals I pulled out of the PTO for the next guy.

    The 4 ball bearings were all the same, I found one with a legible marking (6205). I ordered 4 6205-2rs and pulled all the rubber seals except for those bearing faces that are against a seal.

    Front Shaft Seal was a Victor 60126, couldn't find anything that crossed with that part number. it was an ID .750 OD 1.250 thickness .380
    I ordered a 470954 seal ID .750 OD 1.250 thickness .250

    Rear Shaft Seal was a Victor 60536, it crossed to pat number 450185. I haven't received the seals yet, so those could still be incorrect.
     
  6. Jan 21, 2022
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,102
    Is there any wobble in the shafts? Could be once the other piece of the case is installed & the bearings seated in it the slack will disappear.
     
  7. Jan 22, 2022
    amboynut

    amboynut Member

    Chelatchie, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2021
    Messages:
    310
    Run it! Not enough slack for even a half link.
     
  8. Jan 22, 2022
    Monza

    Monza New Member

    Canaderp
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2019
    Messages:
    25
    Another update - FYI

    I measured the clearance on the PTO Cover for the rear shaft. It measured out approximately at 0.665

    PTO_Rear_Clearance.jpg

    The stick out on the PTO was approximately 0.683

    PTO_Front_Clearance.jpg

    Trying to put the two halves together without a gasket would have likely created interference issues. I decided to use a thicker cork gasket, which should provide adequate clearance when assembled.

    Liberal RTV use and the custom gasket appears to be the fix. No binding in the shaft, smoothly shifts in and of gear.

    Once the seals arrive, I can install them and the flange on the rear shaft.

    PTO_Front.jpg
    PTO_Back.jpg
     
    Fireball and Twin2 like this.
  9. Jan 23, 2022
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    4,170
    I would see if there is a way to get a couple thousands side play without a gasket. All chain-drive PTOs I’ve been into had very thin paper gaskets where the case halves bolted rigidly together. I would be afraid of having a compressible gasket supporting the outer case containing the bearings. This could allow the outer case to “walk” a bit, especially under load.
    A valve cover or oil pan with a cork gasket doesn’t have to support any loads.
    -Donny
     
    wheelie likes this.
  10. Jan 24, 2022
    plastikosmd

    plastikosmd Member

    Southern New England
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    This is perfect timing
    Dealing with one also. thx op!

    I may have some questions also
     
  11. Jan 24, 2022
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,916
    This
     
  12. Jan 25, 2022
    cjbilly

    cjbilly Member

    East Central Indiana
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    50
    Once you have it all back together, I would like to get with you on your bearing and seal sources along with pricing. We are trying to put one back together ourselves and have ran into some problems sourcing some missing items and parts. Really appreciate your offer.

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  13. Jan 26, 2022
    Monza

    Monza New Member

    Canaderp
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2019
    Messages:
    25

    When I got the PTO apart, there had been water ingress into the transmission/transfer case/PTO. I don't think the PTO saw a lot of use or really hard use. All the shafts and internal components cleaned up nicely; the chain was a rusted mess as were the open ball bearings. The 4 ball bearings were all 6205s, I ordered 6205s-2RS (sealed bearings) as I was able to get 4 of them off ebay for like 28CAD. I removed the seals from all bearings aside from the side that would be next to the oil seals.

    I believe the caged roller bearing (Part 25 in the diagram below) is the same as the one here I couldn't find a replacement for the large caged roller (DP-199) bearing. There is a grease fitting (648) and it looks like both the large and small caged roller bearing are greased, not oil bathed. They hadn't been effected by the water in the PTO and after cleaning them up, decided to re-use them.

    I've installed the seals (470954 and 450185) and they both fit. They were ordered off Amazon for I think 14CAD and 10CAD.

    I would expect that better deals on pricing should be available in the US.

    I may crack the case again and see about ordering a selection of thrust washers (19) of different thickness and see how close I can get the fit.

    ramsey-pto-dual-lever-brochure2.jpg
     
    cjbilly likes this.
  14. Jan 26, 2022
    plastikosmd

    plastikosmd Member

    Southern New England
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    To be clear, this thing gets oil from transmission correct?
     
  15. Jan 27, 2022
    amboynut

    amboynut Member

    Chelatchie, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2021
    Messages:
    310
    From the image in post #13 above, I sure could use the shift lever assembly for the FC trucks. Anybody have one you're willing to part with?
    FC PTO LEVERS.png
     
  16. Jan 27, 2022
    68BuickV6

    68BuickV6 Well-Known Member

    Hesperia, CA.
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,160
    Thanks for posting the part numbers. I've had one of these taken apart in a box for 8 or so years now, maybe I'll finally be able to get it together.
     
  17. Jan 28, 2022
    timsresort

    timsresort Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    1,384
    I thought mine was way too loose, and the chain and sprockets were badly worn, but after comparing several units, it was only the chain that was stretched a small amount. Something else to consider besides the idea that it needs to be closed up with both bearings, I believe it also tightens up under load. That explains why you can have a loose one, but not much marking on the inside of the case.
     
New Posts