1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Rebuilding An Old High School Friend!

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Fly Navy, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. Dec 26, 2020
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    I found my first major problem when I took it out on the highway for the first time. It ran like a scalded cat with the little V6 and 5.38 gears... definitely faster than it probably should be.:D Unfortunately it was impossible to get it into third gear... it was like it had no syncros at all.:cry: Second and forth were fine but third was next to impossible even double-clutching and speed shifting. So I yanked the shift tower/cover off for inspection. At first I couldn't find anything amiss. I could manually shift through all the gears. All the gears looked fine. Then after an hour or so of staring at it I saw the problem.

    [​IMG]

    Anyone else see it? I'm sure the sharp eye'd among you will spot it faster than I did. That is the third gear syncro in the center of the picture. Can you see what's wrong?
     
  2. Dec 26, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    The synchro is tight up against the gear dog cone, but why? Wrong size?
     
    Fireball likes this.
  3. Dec 26, 2020
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,798
    did you install the longer J t-90 input without changing the cluster to match?
     
  4. Dec 26, 2020
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    Winner, winner, chicken dinner:beer:

    Yes the new synchro didn't engage the cone on the gear at all. There should be a small space between the synchro teeth and the gear teeth. Of course there are only about a million small variations it seems when trying to order kits for these older 4 speeds. The kit I got was supposed to fit Ford and International T18's... As a reminder, I have IH T18 guts in a Ford case with a Ford input shaft. In theory the only difference should have been the front bearing. So I knew there may be an issue and compared old to new during assembly... obviously not close enough. The 2nd and 4th gear snychros are fine and laying side by side I saw no difference in the 3rd gear synchros. Thankfully I still had all the old bearings and snychros because they were in such good shape so I just reinstalled the old 3rd gear synchro and everything is peachy now. But I'm still not sure why. I don't know if the Ford gears have a slightly different cone profile on the third gear so it didn't engage the IH gear or if this new synchro was simply out of spec from the manufacturer.:shrug:

    Maybe my brother and I just needed a little more practice R&R-ing the transmission.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
    Walt Couch and ITLKSEZ like this.
  5. Dec 27, 2020
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    With the transmission fixed I spent the spring and summer working out some of the kinks. The kids and I put winch right to work cleaning some junk/scrap out of a ditch near the house last spring.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Initially it was a little twitchy on the highway but after a quick toe-in adjustment it is much, much better. It is nice and comfortable to drive around 50-55 on our highways, but at 60 and above you need to be paying close attention and on your game. Maybe if I let a little more air out of the tires it would better but our rough broken pavement around here makes higher speeds a little treacherous. You're basically hitting bumps with both axles at the same time which means, at least temporarily, your airborne. Like I said maybe if I let a little more air out the tires. Currently I'm running 25~26 psi which gives a pretty good contact patch on my shop floor. Not sure exactly how low I can safely go but the sidewalls on these tires are probably just a little too stiff for no more than this thing weighs.

    I do find myself wearing earplugs or muffs when I drive it due to the wind noise (I haven't actually driven it with full doors on yet, not sure if that will make it better)... I must be getting old. In fairness I was told my left ear was a hearing aid candidate when I retired from the Navy so I have been doing what I can to protect what little remains.

    Overall it is a blast to drive. I have put almost 300 miles on it so far. In my next post I'll go over it's current status and what is left on my to-do list.
     
  6. Dec 27, 2020
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,998
    It's great seeing jeeps put to work!
     
    Fly Navy likes this.
  7. Jan 1, 2021
    MOSDIF589

    MOSDIF589 New Member

    Atlanta, Ga.
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    30
    Great story & build, I really enjoyed reading...
     
  8. Jan 2, 2021
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    Thanks! I'll try and get its current status updated today sometime. Meant to do it earlier but we've been having trouble with our well since Halloween and I had to spend the last few days hauling water.:cry:
     
  9. Jan 2, 2021
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    Current Status: Down:banghead:

    I had been out running around (back in October :whistle:) when I noticed all of my gauges... with the exception of the voltmeter... had suddenly stopped working as I was backing it into the garage. I of course daisy-chained all the powers and grounds together for the gauges. Given that the back lighting still works on everything it is not the ground. And no, unfortunately it isn't a fuse.

    My first problem, aside from motivation, is troubleshooting behind the dash on a jeep was next to impossible when I was young and limber... now it basically is impossible. Probably why my motivation is lacking. I've tried using my inspection camera and every mirror I can lay my hands on, including my wife's 6 or 8" make-up mirror :D, to try and see what is going on but nothing obvious has jumped out. The second problem is I have too many other projects to distract myself with... which is why it has been sitting since October. However on the bright side all my drill bits have been sharpened, I've cleaned every nook and corner of the shop, my honey-do list is blank and I've sorted/organized a large portion of my random, left over, and spare parts. And I guess my third problem is some idiot built an overly fancy roll cage that attaches to the dash so I can't remove the dash for easier access without taking the top off and removing the cage first.:steamed: I know, I just need to breakdown and spend some quality time focusing on it but I just can't seem to do it. In the meantime it just sits there with the battery disconnected so it doesn't burst into flames in the event there is a short somewhere.

    Otherwise, since Santa put some tailgate chains in my stocking, my to-do list is rather short:
    1. I need to anchor down my transfer case shift boot... it's just sitting there at the moment. I know 5 minute job.
    2. I need to fab/rig-up the front half of my emergency brakes. So a pedal or lever of some kind... not sure.
    3. I have 4 to 8 trouble codes I need to sort out. They don't seem to affect how it runs but my OCD just hates when the check engine light comes on after 10 or 15 minutes of driving. The DTC's are largely off-setting... one high voltage and one low voltage for the same sensor. I just need to spend some time with an ohm meter and to make sure it is a sensor and not one of my wiring modifications or an intermittent ground before I order new sensors because some of them are expensive.
    4. And finally I would like to figure out some way to view live data from the ECM so I can flash a custom chip and tweak some of the set points. But I need to know what the ECM is seeing for vehicle speed to do this.

    We'll see how the new year goes. I was going to try and knock out the gauges over the holidays after I enlisted some help from the family rehanging & aligning the door on my Dodge but then our well started acting up and I had to haul water which absolutely put a wet blanket on my motivation.
     
    Fireball and ITLKSEZ like this.
  10. Jan 27, 2021
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    Buckled down and worked on my gauge issue. Looks like the fuel gauge in my NEW instrument cluster suddenly developed a dead short internally. :banghead: Thank you OMIX-ADA! :poo:

    The gauges fuse wasn't blowing because I just used that wire from the painless harness for the voltmeter. Oddly enough I did discover that the wiper fuse was blown. Turns out the electric choke wire I used as power for half the gauges is fed from the wiper fuse. So mystery solved. Still not very happy. My new instrument cluster didn't last 6 months! But what can a guy do? OMIX is literally the only source from much of this.

    Oh well, new fuel and temp gauge are on the way. You can bet I am going to thoroughly inspect and test them before I install them!
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  11. Jan 29, 2021
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Messages:
    7,540
    Unfortunately... You can toast the gauges during "testing and trouble shooting".
     
  12. Jan 29, 2021
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan

    i'm liking the build, but i'm not sure about it all taking place in iowa...
     
  13. Jan 30, 2021
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    Oh I've spent my fair fair share of time in Nebraska. I was stationed at Offutt for a while and then I ran the NROTC unit at UNL before I retired. I just had the good sense to move when I retired.:D Opting instead for a state that wouldn't tax my retirement pay and where our family farm was located so I could take care of things for Mom.

    But my brother and I still head out your way on a semi-regular basis picking up car projects here and there. Maybe we'll see you sometime.:beer:
     
  14. Jan 30, 2021
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan

    our taxes are pretty awful. would love to meet up if you're ever around.
     
  15. Mar 12, 2021
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    The New Temp & Fuel Gauge for my cluster arrived last month... it was almost cheaper to buy the pair/and Temp gauge didn't read out within spec... and after MUCH procrastinating I finally buckled down and got them installed. Interestingly the new gauges have circuit boards instead of the bi-metal wire windings the original did. Hopefully they will be better.:shrug:

    With the exception of the new Temp gauge everything is functional again. I fear I have to pull the cluster out again and play with the Temp gauge. When the key is turned off the needle disappears out of the window to the left. There are no stops on the face of this new one so I have no clue how far left it goes but the needle it is just barely visible on the left side of the window when the engine gets up to temp and the fan turns on. So currently it is worthless. I guess I need to see about repositioning the needle somehow:banghead:. Don't know if I have to pull the needle itself off to re-clock it or if I can adjust the needle while it's on the post? We'll see, I'm in no hurry because my shoulders are still aching from getting the cluster in and out the last time.

    While I was waiting for the gauges, I pulled the power steering pump and rebuilt it in an effort to try and get all the air bled out of the system. Pretty sure it was sucking air from around the shaft or reservoir connection because it would foam at an idle without any demand being placed on it. Back together now it doesn't foam as bad, in fact not at all at an idle with no demand so that is an improvement. But the steering is still very hard at times. Perhaps I am asking too much of this little pump. I tried to raise the pump pressure when I rebuilt it but it didn't have any shims inside like I'm used to. I figured all these pumps probably came from the same supplier and it would be more or less universal on the inside so I could turn the pressure up. But no dice... I did try to stretch the spring a little in a effort to increase the press but I doubt it really did anything. Maybe these little Buick pumps are strictly limited to rack and pinion applications and I need to get an LS pump from a pickup that's mated to a steering gear? But honestly as light as this little rig is I figured the Buick power steering pump would work just fine. I know steering gears like to have more pressure than rack & pinions do but I don't know/and can't find what the flow requirements are. Maybe this pump doesn't flow enough?

    Oh the fun of the final fine tuning and tweaking that goes into a custom rigs! What do they say, the last 5% takes 90% of the time.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  16. Mar 12, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    I dealt with the same issue on mine. Steering is ok, it’s just not quick. From what I found, the pump bodies are the same, but R&P pumps have a lower psi relief, and on mine, I am using some of the R&P pressure lines, and the ID of the tubing is very narrow. I’m wondering if a flow restriction is an issue. I have fair pressure after swapping reliefs with a junkyard unit, but the lock-to-lock speed isn’t great. Some day I’ll get around to rebuilding the pressure lines with bigger tubing.
     
  17. Mar 12, 2021
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    I think you hit the nail on the head. When my steering is not hard, it is slow like you mention. So I am starting to think I should start by increasing flow and worry less about pressure.

    I sized my pressure and return lines off of the Ford Steering gear so I would expect any flow restriction I have to be the from the pump itself. I know different sized valves are available to adjust flow, I'll have to see if any are available for this little Buick pump. OR.... I do have a 5.3 iron block LS (I think out of a pickup) sitting here under the bench with a power steering pump on it. Maybe I pull the valving out of it???
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  18. Oct 10, 2021
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    At my wits end:steamed: It's been a while I know. Sadly I've been fighting my power steering on and off since March. I have never had no much trouble bleeding a hydraulic system in my life. I'm ready to start driving this thing!! Previously I didn't think the system was foaming at idle after I resealed the pump but further troubleshooting with the help of my wife proved I was wrong. In the interim I have put a new pump on and replaced the steering gear because I found the original was providing no assistance when turning left... only right (turns out the selector valve was all scared up).

    Enough complaining... this is what is going on. Again, NEW Power steering pump and reservoir, NEW steering gear. I have checked all the return side plumbing to ensure it's not sucking air anywhere and can find no leaks. When I remove the accessory drive belt and turned the pump by hand while my wife cycles the steering stop to stop we can get it to the point where there is no evidence of air in the system. But when I put the belt back on and start it, it instantly foams. I have also disabled the ignition system and cranked it over with the starter while cycling the steering lock to lock until the air is gone and there are no bubbles, but when I reconnect the ignition system and start it, again it instantly foams. I just don't know where to go from here.:banghead:

    When turning the pump by hand with my wife holding the steering wheel against a stop the pump does feel spongy, like it is building pressure, like it is compressing air. If fact, when you are doing this if you let go of the pulley it will spring back and rotate in reverse for a minute. Perhaps that is just the pump working against the relief spring but I can't hear any pressure being relieved. Maybe I can't develop enough pressure hand turning the pump to open the relief, just compress the spring? Given how instant the foaming action in the reservoir is, I'm inclined to suspect that it is coming from the relief valve but can't see how relief valve would introduce air into the system. I just don't know.

    So here I am seeking the wisdom of the crowd.:D

    Ideas? Thought? Suggestions?? The only next step I can think of is to plug the ports on the steering gear and loop the supply and return lines and see what it does then. To be honest I've half a notion to turn the power steering pump into an idle pulley and just live with manual steering!:cry:
     
  19. Oct 11, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    That’s weird.
    So the only components you haven’t replaced are the lines?

    I’ve always assumed that both the supply (obviously) and return lines are under a bit of pressure when the system is functioning, but I guess it could also be like an AC system where there’s a high and a low side, and the pump is drawing negative pressure on the return line and overcoming a seal somewhere.

    What if you capped the reservoir with a section of inner tube and a hose clamp? If the system is drawing air from somewhere, it will expand as it’s running as it draws air in through the leak and blow up the tube like a balloon. If there is a cavity somewhere that hasn’t been fully bled, it will collapse the tube as the system pressurizes and collapses that air pocket.

    I’ve read that these boxes are notoriously hard to bleed, but it’s mostly the ones where the valve section is upside down like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Oct 11, 2021
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    361
    Well just my luck that is the exact steering box I have!:bananatool:

    Maybe more patience is required?? In the meantime, last night I removed the return line from the back of the pump, capped reservoir side and extended the return with a curved bit of tubing back into the top of the reservoir... kind of like bench bleeding a master cylinder. My thought is I wanted to see the returning fluid so I could see if there was any air in it. With that done I turned the pump by hand while my son cycled the steering wheel and low and behold there was more air in the fluid I had previously judged air free than I had thought. Not a lot. A very small bubble here and there but air none the less.

    So my plan is to continue bleeding with this set-up, when there is an extra set of hands available to turn the steering wheel. First turning the pump by hand, then cranking with the starter before trying to start it again. I'm leaving Wednesday for a pheasant hunting trip so we'll see how far I get over the next few evenings.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
New Posts