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Truck 4-speed Transmissions As I Understand Them

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by timgr, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. Oct 28, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    It is worth noting that the T18 that came out of a Buick 350-equipped FSJ will in fact bolt in to an early CJ with the 225. The large-hole D18 bolts in place of the D20. The rear driveshaft will be short, at around 13”, but it’s not much worse than an SM420 or SM465 with the long t-case adapter. Floor, cross member, clutch linkage and driveshaft modifications will be necessary. If no lift is used, the driveshaft length is not an issue, and it’s by far the easiest 4-speed swap out there, aside from finding a ‘unicorn‘ factory unit to swap in.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
    timgr and Fireball like this.
  2. Oct 28, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Those Buick 350/4-speed Wagoneers and J-trucks are not plentiful either. The Buick 350 FSJs are well-liked just as what they are.

    Cool picture of the goofy bell housing.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  3. Oct 28, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine!

    Twin Lake MI
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    How long is that bellhousing? It would be interesting to see how it compares to the T-14 bellhousing plus adapter plate I have.
     
  4. Oct 28, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine!

    Twin Lake MI
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    [​IMG]
    I know this thread is about 4 speeds but that picture of the red setup got me thinking about a motor and trans for sale locally. Ad says buick 350 with 3 speed? what trans would this be?
     
  5. Oct 28, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    T-15 with a looong input gear.

    If you want the engine, the T-15 should be a bonus. The long input likely has no value, but the rest of the gears would have some value if presented in the right market.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  6. Oct 28, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    17% longer than the shift top, from measuring on the screen. Measure your shift top and multiply by 1.17.
     
  7. Oct 28, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    71CJT18 (800 x 600).jpg

    This is the '71 CR T-18 from a CJ, pictured in Wmi68CJ's post above. One arrow is the bolt location that is different from a Ford T-18. Compare to the passenger side - the Ford would have the same bolt separation on both sides. This bolt distance is characteristic of a Jeep T-18 case.

    The other arrow points to a plate adapter between the bell housing and the Jeep T-18 case. I expect this is iron, and an aftermarket adapter would be aluminum.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
    Twin2 likes this.
  8. Oct 28, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine!

    Twin Lake MI
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    You are correct , Sir!
     
  9. Oct 28, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine!

    Twin Lake MI
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    Engine has a rod through the block. I was thinking for the trans transfercase and engine accessories might be worth the purchase.
     
  10. Oct 28, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Power steering - will it fit a 225? I would not give much for it. Scrap plus something.
     
  11. Oct 28, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine!

    Twin Lake MI
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    I believe it will but they are looking for $150. I bit steep in my opinion
     
  12. Oct 28, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    150 for engine . fair price for a core
     
  13. Oct 28, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine!

    Twin Lake MI
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    blocks got a hole in it.
     
  14. Oct 28, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Good write up Tim! A couple points to clarify. The Ford T-18 case when using a stick Jeep or Scout transfer case adapter will need the bottom left bolt hole plugged. I typically use a set screw for this. The back of the Ford case will need 6 holes drilled and tapped for a stock Jeep or Scout adapter. The Scout adapter will clock the transfer case down on the passenger side.
    A T-19 adapter or output shaft will NOT work in a T-18 or vice-verse. A T19 case has pto ports on both sides, easy to identify. A Ford T-18 has pto port on passenger side. Jeep T-18 has pto port on driver side.

    regarding swapping a Ford input shaft/main drive gear into a Jeep T-18. Depends on year of both. As noted there were two different 3/4 blocking rings and synchronizer used with corresponding 3rd speed gear. The diameter of the 3rd gear and mains drive gear cone must match and use the correct 3/4 synchronizer assembly. The wide diameter and narrow diameter (inside diameter) blocking rings have different notch widths for the 3/4 synchronizer assembly inserts. You “can” install the narrow insert synchronizer assembly with the wider notched blocking rings. They will go together. The problem is the wider notches allow the blocking rings to rotate too far and do not allow the teeth on the synchronizer sleeve and gear to align properly causing excessively hard shifting. Been there done that
    You cannot assemble the wide inserts with the narrow notches. They will not go together.
    To complicate matters there are two different Ford input shafts. One uses the traditional narrow input bearing that uses a slinger between the bearing and the gear on the shaft. The late model units use the wider bearing which is the same as the mainshaft output bearing and does not use the slinger. I’ve covered this in the past so a search may be helpful on this stuff. There is much more but I’m tired and won’t cover more tonight.
     
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  15. Oct 29, 2020
    RATTYFLATTY

    RATTYFLATTY I think you need a little more throttle

    Central MN
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    This being said, if one is using a Jeep case and you have a complete Ford T-18 you should just swap the complete guts if unsure about compatibility. Correct?
     
  16. Oct 29, 2020
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Yes rattyflatty,
    you could interchange the complete set of Ford /Jeep parts or you can mix match many but not all parts.

    Nick,
    I had all but forgotten about some T18 blocking rings having the wide notches.
    I thought the wide notches only effected the large blocking ring at rear of transmission.
    We’re those wide notched blocking rings used only after the 1978 changes ?
    Does the correct associated synchronizer assembly have wider synchronizer plates ?
     
  17. Oct 29, 2020
    Renegade ll

    Renegade ll Member

    Thayne Wyoming
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    I have the SM465 in my 1971 cj5 and the trans to transfer case is only 7/8" deep.
     
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  18. Oct 29, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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  19. Oct 29, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine!

    Twin Lake MI
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    trans side
    bellhousing side
    thick bearing retainer
    stick-out length as stated before +/- 10.25"
    This is the crusty trans mount bracket I found, by accident, attached the rear side of the crossmember when I was scrapping out the frame last weekend. The rubber mount was rotted away so when I pulled the trans I literally with my son and his buddy lifted right off of the cross member and never looked back. I would have had to fab something when it went in my jeep but now I won't!
     
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  20. Oct 29, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    yep than will bolt to a T 14 deep bell housing . excellent score
     
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