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My New Koenig 100

Discussion in 'Winches' started by hotdogtaco, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. Sep 28, 2020
    hotdogtaco

    hotdogtaco New Member

    Lubbock, TX,...
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    37
    I have been hunting a PTO winch setup for about 5 years now.
    Last month I scored a Koenig 100 pto winch setup off facebook marketplace for a great price. Usually pto winches in my area run around 1K-1500, this one I picked up for $500. It came with the winch, koenig 51 pto, and the shafts. I knew it needed some work here and there so I was prepared for all that.
    The guy also threw in a ton of random jeep parts he had sitting around: carb, set of drive shafts, brake kits, brake backing plates etc.

    Today I finally got around to opening up and going through everything to see what needs to be done. The winch has a bent wishbone on the lever side but that's the only real issue. I started soaking everything in PB blaster as I plan to disassemble and inspect everything before I install it on my M38A1.

    The PTO (koenig 51) is a little different story. It is jammed partially open. I can't close the case and I can't get it to open any further. The pto shaft yoke has missing the set screw but somehow the yoke still won't come off, so that might be welded but hopefully just rusted in place. Once I figure out what is binding in the case, I can get it closed and check out the yoke situation. I have a koenig 41 I cleaned up a while back that I can use for parts if needed (I kept it specifically for this purpose..parts).
    Also someone replaced one of the pipe plugs with a zerk fitting, plugged the holes that allow transfer case lubricant to flow through, and apparently has been using grease to lubricate the PTO (It's going to be a mess to clean-up). I don't really know how well that worked...I'll be able to see the wear once I figure out how to open it up. Was this a common mod to these PTOs? All my other PTOs I ran normal lubricant.

    the shafts are in good shape but might need a new u-joint or two.

    PICS:
    [​IMG]
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    47v6 and Twin2 like this.
  2. Sep 28, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
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    9,754
    Love me them Koenigs. $500 is about right.

    Those 'wishbones' get wrecked all the time when folks let a loop of cable get loose and then crank on it. Herb the Overdrive Guy has new parts for them, BTW. Even the brake pads, although I made my own from hardwood.
     
  3. Sep 28, 2020
    jeeper50

    jeeper50 jeeps 'till I die

    Spanish Fort. AL
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    844
    They are beasts, my model 100 had 3/8" cable on it and had a cage around the spool to prevent cable jumping and taking out the wishbone handle. RKI handles parts for them more info here;

    Koenig "King" Winches

    about half way through this thread a Koenig ad shows the cable drum guard that I had

    Koenig "King" Winches

    see page 4 of my koenig
     
    hotdogtaco likes this.
  4. Sep 30, 2020
    hotdogtaco

    hotdogtaco New Member

    Lubbock, TX,...
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    37
    Well I finally got my pto situation worked out...at least partially.

    I was able to get the PTO case fully closed with a BFH. Once I did that I was able to see the shaft yoke was NOT welded on, and just really really stuck. So I made a puller out of an old puller I had plus some old bolts (see pic below) and removed the yoke. It fought me the whole way....
    After that I was able to focus on getting the case fully opened and the two sides separated. Well long story short I was forced to cut the chain due to it binding in the case. Once I did that I was able to separate the case without any issues.

    Now I need to clean it up (clear out all the grease and re-drill out the JB welded lubrication holes), replace the chain, and reassemble. Then it's on to disassembling and inspecting the winch itself.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    jeepermc, dozerjim, jeeper50 and 2 others like this.
  5. Oct 7, 2020
    hotdogtaco

    hotdogtaco New Member

    Lubbock, TX,...
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    37
    Over the weekend I decided to try another attempt at breaking loose the PTO pipe plug. That failed. I tried heating it, welding a nut to it, and a few other things....nothing worked.
    So I put that aside for now and decided to do some winch work.

    I tore it all apart (or as apart as I could get until a little mishap) and cleaned it up. There was a TON of nasty stinky 50 year old grease inside. However the gears are all in great shape, as are the bearings.
    While attempting to loosen up the set screw that holds the main gear in place, my hex key snapped and left the tip of the hex key stuck inside the set screw. I have tried several things I remove the broken hex key but all have failed (magnets, glue, different glue, another adhesive, pulling it with a pic, flushing it out with spray, and blasting air attempting to blow it out). Any ideas on how I can get this little guy out? (see pics below).
    I also did some "high quality metal work" with a hammer.... and fixed the wishbone section of the lever.

    I reassembled the winch with the exception of the main gear housing top cover. I'm keeping that unbolted (but covered to keep dirt/dust out) until I can figure out how to get that broken bit out. I really don't want it falling out while winching and taking out my worm gear.

    What lubricants are popular options for out winches? I was thinking maybe john deere corn head grease

    before:
    [​IMG]

    part-way through clean-up:
    [​IMG]

    worm gear:
    [​IMG]

    stuck hex key:
    [​IMG]


    main gear stamping:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Oct 7, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
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    9,754
    For the broken key I'd at least try hitting it sharply with a small punch, to possibly make it unbind. Might get lucky with a magnet then.

    When that doesn't work, you may be in for some 'quality time' with a dremel tool and a carbide bit.

    That wishbone and brake assembly looks like a jury-rig. Bear in mind your life and limbs may depend on it functioning flawlessly in a bad situation.

    Herm sells the parts including the A-frame.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  7. Oct 7, 2020
    jeeper50

    jeeper50 jeeps 'till I die

    Spanish Fort. AL
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    844
    I believe they had 90wt in the gearcase for the winch cornhead may be just the ticket
     
  8. Oct 7, 2020
    jwmckenzie

    jwmckenzie Sponsor

    Boston, MA
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    568
    I have been following this with interest. I have a 51 PTO on my Jeep and I can't keep it from leaking. I have looked inside with a scope and "think" the hole on the bottom of the assembly, when attached to the Jeep, is actually a drain hole. Seems a slot is cut on the inside of the housing which allows the oil to run out when the bottom most bolt (1/4") is removed. Would love to see some pics of your 51 on the inside when you get it cleaned out. Most interested in the small end at the the lowest point when assembled in the Jeep.

    Right now I have drained all the oil out of the 51 and just have to deal with anything that comes over from the transmission, transfer case and overdrive.

    Thanks.
     
  9. Oct 7, 2020
    GillaFunk

    GillaFunk I'm the Dude, so thats what you call me. 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Graeagle Calif...
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    Sep 26, 2019
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    Niiiiice find!!!
     
  10. Oct 8, 2020
    jeeper50

    jeeper50 jeeps 'till I die

    Spanish Fort. AL
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    Dec 20, 2007
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    There is not any drain hole for oil in the case, it is designed to share oil with the transfer case. I used a small piece of braided fishing line held in place around the case halves with form a gasket #2. Take your time and of course it is done easier with rear cover removed or laid flat.
     
  11. Oct 8, 2020
    jwmckenzie

    jwmckenzie Sponsor

    Boston, MA
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
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    568
    Let me be a bit clearer. Here is a pic I found on line to help describe what I am talking about.

    [​IMG]

    Best I can see with my scope there is a slot cut on the inside of the case, Red Arrow, where the bolt passes thru the case to hold the two halves together. The slot allows the oil to drain out when the bolt is removed.

    The case doesn't leak at the seam connecting the two halves, just out the bolt hole.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
    jeeper50 likes this.
  12. Oct 8, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    The Koenig manual called for EP-140 oil.
     
  13. Oct 19, 2020
    hotdogtaco

    hotdogtaco New Member

    Lubbock, TX,...
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
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    Well I finally had some time to work on that broken-off hex key that was stuck inside my PTO winch main gear set screw. I used some high pressure air coupled with picking at it with some tweezers. It eventually came out.
    After that was removed, I got the winch all buttoned up.

    Once my jeep gets back from the motor shop, I'll buy the proper oil for the winch, lube it up, and slap it on the jeep.

    At this point I'm just waiting on the engine shop to finish my jeep. It's been right under 3months (jeep has been gone since 7/31) & I'm ready to get my jeep back so I can enjoy it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Oct 20, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Good news on the key, and kind of amazing good luck.

    Was that a ball-end key? Never good for hi-torque situations.
     
  15. Oct 20, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The “hole” in the bottom of the pto case is simply where they went through the casting during machining and is not a drain hole. It’s super thin on the end of the boss. I’ve run into leaks in the bolt holes because of this before. Either use sealer on the threads or an o-ring under the head of the bolt. Or both.
     
  16. Oct 20, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    I would highly recommend not removing the bolts holding the bronze gear to the hub unless you like removing broken bolts. They are “shear bolts” and very soft. I’ve broken lots of them with all possible due care take. Sometimes they come out ok but frequently not.
     
  17. Oct 20, 2020
    hotdogtaco

    hotdogtaco New Member

    Lubbock, TX,...
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    Yea I decided to not disassemble any further in case I broke anything.Ii stopped there, cleaned out the old nasty grease, and reassembled everything.
     
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  18. Oct 28, 2020
    jeeper50

    jeeper50 jeeps 'till I die

    Spanish Fort. AL
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    Are you going with steel cable or synthetic rope?
     
  19. Oct 28, 2020
    hotdogtaco

    hotdogtaco New Member

    Lubbock, TX,...
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    I'm going to stick with steel cable. I understand all the positive attributes of synthetic v steel cable, but I still prefer steel cable.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Oct 28, 2020
    Jay's WWII Jeeps

    Jay's WWII Jeeps Member

    Napa CA
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    Mar 14, 2018
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    Where did you get gaskets and seals for it?
    Thanks
    Jay
     
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