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Dj-5c Restoration - 3s + 1w

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Jeff Bromberger, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Oct 13, 2020
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Weatherford, TX
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    Check to see if those rectangular indicators are available. I think they are the same as the ones on a CJ. Glad things are going well.
     
  2. Oct 13, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    I have the illuminated red ones for the rear roof line. Need to buy the plain yellow reflectors for the front fenders. The front fender turn signals/hazard flashers are another story...
     
  3. Oct 14, 2020
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I was referring to the dash indicators. But you are correct. The OE fender lights are tough to find.
     
  4. Oct 14, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

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    Our dash indicators are different from the CJ5 variants... We have two of these plastic thingies - one for the hazards and wipers/washer (but not the headlights?) and one for the Fan/Heater controls...
    Dash_Indicator_Front.jpg Dash_Indicator_Rear.jpg

    I have both of these, but I need to get the labels reprinted. I am thinking that if I can get a P-Touch to work in reverse (white letters on black background), then I am in business. Once I get the labels printed, I will remove the clips, clean the lucite, repaint the metal support (which holds the lamp) and then we'll be good.

    I am going out later to swap out the gasket on the thermostat, using a bit of Permatex to glue the thing in place. I won't be able to play until Monday (other life is in the way), so I hope by then that it'll be dry and able to hold water.

    After I get the water issue fixed, then it's 100% electrical.
     
  5. Oct 14, 2020
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I see. I think you are on track with the P Touch. They have different cartridges or ribbons that can fix you up. (y)
     
  6. Oct 14, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    Let's see if I have learned anything from Tim...

    I want to scrap the Jeep Neutral Safety Switch and use the one that's built in to the 727 transmission. The way that works is that the NSS pin is GROUNDED when you're in Neutral or Park. The solenoid, however, wants to see voltage on it's control pin to get the juice to the starter. I've used some of his design (from the all powerful headlight thread) and came up with this... 727-NSS-Idea.jpg

    Does this make sense? It seems to follow the rules for the relay. If I've screwed something up, can I get a shout? :D
     
  7. Oct 14, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Hi Jeff - I can't see your video but I'm sure it's awesome!

    If this is like the CJs, you have the fender-mounted Ford-type solenoid. There is a version of that for automatics that isolates the solenoid coil ground from the bracket and has an additional terminal on the underside. You connect this isolated terminal to your NSS and you're done.

    More Information for STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS SS582
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    ojgrsoi likes this.
  8. Oct 14, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

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    The most awesome part is that it's at idle and has 60PSI of oil pressure! I didn't have to jiggle with the carb after rebuilding it, which sounds like I'll have to figure out how to determine lean/rich. And I didn't set the timing - I think it's a degree or two BTDC. I need to get a timing light to check/set this. Again, that's all minor bananas next to having the engine run...

    As for the solenoid, I just bought this one about 60 days ago and I don't want to go replacing it so soon! I ordered a bunch (five) relays and sockets, so using one of them to handle this is no big deal. I also have to figure out about the back-up lights (that also goes through the NSS)...

    Thanks for all of the inspiration. Once everything all fell apart last year, I never ever thought I'd hear this engine run. Now, I have to get the leaks patched and then break it in.

    Just as an aside, how hot should an engine get? Say I have one of those external thermometer gun things. I realize that the exhaust manifold is gonna be roasty toasty, but how about the block itself? The radiator should be either 190 or 210, depending on the thermostat - the temperature of the outgoing water. I am suddenly very paranoid. I want to make sure that the cooling system is actually cooling things before I go nuts...
     
  9. Oct 14, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Another approach, if you don't want to buy more parts. Insulate the base of the solenoid from the fender, and connect the base to the NSS. Same effect as using the solenoid I suggested. You'll find a use for the other new parts.

    And your relay scheme above looks right. Connect the relay coil ground to your neutral safety switch, and activate the starter solenoid with the NO contact of the relay.

    Note the NSS is one of those parts that comes up a lot in "why won't my Grand Wagoneer start?" questions on those sites. Not that it's necessarily troublesome, but it's a link in the chain that naive owners often overlook. Realize that you are adding another fallible link in that chain when you add that extra relay.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  10. Oct 15, 2020
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Use a relay for back up lights.
     
  11. Oct 21, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Quarantined in the Garage

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    Quick status update...

    There are several water leaks. I attacked the two at the thermostat housing. That seems to have fixed most of it. There's still a leak at one of the CTO units (the rear one), and I'll have to tighten that one down again...

    So, today, with the water gusher under control, I ran the engine for one hour. What an experience. I used one of those remote temperature guns to keep track of things. The temperatures were within reason, I guess. Water jacket got no hotter than 210. Intake manifold of 250, and a little hotter right under the carb, where it's heated by the exhaust. Exhaust manifold at 400-500, depending on where I aimed it. Oil pan was maxed at 200. Transmission lines (it was running in neutral, so the pump was moving things along) got up to 150 and stayed there.

    First, I got about a quarter pound of very fine red dust/rust out of the exhaust system (cough). Probably from the old exhaust system, right? I have all of the original plumbing south of the manifold, so some crud was probably expected.

    Second, the engine came up to operating temperature (I called it when the thermostat opened) and ran that way for the rest of the time. Strangely, the engine had a loping rhythm to it. It was sort of "hunting" as the RPMs went up and down just enough to be audible. I jiggled the distributor forward and back (backwoods timing adjustments) until it ran "better" but it still didn't even out all the way. I have no idea if it's running lean/rich, so that's another screw I will putter with next go round.

    Third, as the engine got warm, the oil pressure dropped. It starts at 60, then slowly drops to a steady 25. If you hold the manual gauge in your hand, you feel the pulsing of the oil - like a heartbeat. I made sure that the air was bled out of the measurement line, but the pressure never got back to 60. It did rise, as expected, as the RPMs went up. Not as high as I would like. I am using a conventional 10W40 with a zinc additive for break-in. It's the oil that I am supposed to use according to the TSM.

    Fourth, each time I hit the accelerator, the engine stumbled a bit before getting the idea that I wanted it to go faster. Maybe that's a carb issue as well?

    Fifth, and this one is truly just me whining. I took such good care to prime and paint the engine and related parts. Well, one hour of running and the exhaust manifold is completely paint free now. The paint and the underlying primer came off in large tissue thin sheets. So much for me taking such pains to make sure that it was totally covered evenly and without drips.

    Topped up the fluids. Added a spot of oil and ATF. Put coolant into the overflow jug, so that it'll get sucked in as the engine cools. I wasn't going to be a hero and open a hot radiator. Did that once in my youth and nearly scalded myself in the process.

    I'm going to let it sit a week - other life priorities. Then, I may try putting it in gear and seeing if the rebuilt transmission does what it should. And then, it is time to hunt down the ground line issues.
     
    bigbendhiker, ojgrsoi and Fireball like this.
  12. Oct 22, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Smoke from the exhaust, if it comes from combustion, is either black (fuel), blue (oil) or white (water). It must come from the rusty interior of your muffler and pipes.

    If it's not been tuned, you need to do that. I would expect to need to rebuild the carburetor on any new-old car. They just need it. New wires, plugs, cap, rotor, new hoses for fuel and coolant, new vacuum hoses, clean the EGR pintle and new gasket, new fluids, new belts, likely other stuff.

    Hesitation is likely because your carburetor accelerator pump does not work. When you open the throttle, there should be a shot of gas to mitigate the drop in vacuum. otherwise the engine stumbles until the vacuum catches up to the new engine speed. You need to rebuild the carburetor and adjust it according to the manual. Look in old posts - there are better kits for the YFs.
     
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