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Fino's Sbc Build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Sep 25, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    EDIT - Moving this thread to builds forum as its turning into a sbc build for the 58 wagon....

    Trying to better understand the accessory mounting brackets for sbc's. It seems like a lot of the mount set-ups use the accessory holes in the heads and the long water pump, or are the late 50s/early 60's set-ups with no head mounting and short water pump (often more 'outboard' positioning of the accessory as well). Did that switch from short to long water pump coincide with the addition of the head mounting holes? Basically, this leads to my question: are there many mounting options for short water pump with head accessory holes - which is maybe not a very common combination?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  2. Sep 25, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    I think only the short water pumps were used on the early engines with no accessory mounts on the heads. Those early engines only had a generator, usually mounted to the exhaust manifold. The very early engines used a front cradle to mount the engine, no mounts on the sides of the block.
    From the mid-60s into the '70s, they used both short and long water pumps, depending on the car model and accessories.
    -Donny
     
  3. Sep 25, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    The context of the question came from the idea that 305 heads can be used with an old 283 due to the small combustion chamber, and they have accessory mounting holes. But it also seems that those mounting holes might not be all the useful with a short water pump, and long water pump might need to be part of the picture as well if going with 305 heads....
     
  4. Sep 25, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Dont you have a ton of room between fan and radiator anyway?
     
  5. Sep 25, 2020
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

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    You should be able to find all sorts of accessory mounts compatible with the short pumps and head mounting holes. That said, not that difficult to build anything you want. Other than the PS pump, there are no purchased mounts on this:

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Sep 25, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    There is a lot out there. I made mine because I'm cheap. Corvettes kept the short pumps for a while for clearance so that might be a search to try.
    I don't like low alternators and I don't like anything on the exhaust. My alternator is in the driver's side of the lifter valley.
     
  7. Sep 25, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    Your 305 heads would open up choices for any number of brackets and water pump lengths. The main difference when switching between short or long water pumps is the pulley sets. The pulley sets need to be matched to the water pump length.
    -Donny
     
  8. Sep 26, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    As does the bracketry. The brackets also set the depth (as well as the pulleys) to help everything line up properly.
    Tons of combinations to make things fit.
     
  9. Sep 26, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    thanks guys - I figured you should be able to get any mix and match arrangements, but it is tedious to search for all the little details for where and how stuff mounts. The search and filter options on most suppliers websites is not that great and having to sort through high vs low mounts, long vs short pump, serpentine vs v-belt, etc. I would pay the extra premium to a local 'speed' shop if I could talk to a person that knew this stuff and could quickly winnow the options - I guess what was called customer service.

    yup...so if necessary, a long pump could be used. I think duffer mentioned this way back, but the front cradle engine mount prohibits the use of a low driver side PS pump, even though the steering is not in conflict. Seeing more high PS pump mount options with the long water pump...and that means moving the alternator somewhere else etc. Just going to take time to sort through all the options.

    I do think I am about 20 years too late for getting into gen I sbc's....talked to the owner of a local cylinder head shop about setting up a set of 305 heads and figured maybe he'd have some cores sitting around....he chuckled and said he'd have to go to his personal boneyard at home and check. At one time they were ubiquitous, but now its been 15-20 years since he's done a set.....

    dream thought of the day....I am just getting through my first cup of coffee for the day, and I have been working with finishing a wood project and breathing lots of fumes, so I am definitely a bit in dreamland....but wouldn't a 283 be a sweet set-up in a VJ jeepster?
     
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  10. Sep 26, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Or a Jeepster Commando:D
     
  11. Sep 26, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    yes - especially if it was set-up for more of a cruiser than off-roader. Mine is pretty worn and tired, but from my limited driving and from research etc, its a bit of a higher revving, short stroke engine. It seems to need 1500 rpm to even begin to find some guts, and at 2000+ rpm it starts to find some fun. But for the something like the Willy's, I would rather it have a bit more low end pull. Its not like I am doing any 'zipping' around at high rpm with it (not too mention the glass packs are obnoxious under throttle) and the t90 isn't exactly a quick shift. I do think some work on the clutch system will help make driving it a bit easier, but it won't idle itself over a speed bump which makes it difficult to use off-road without a lot of gearing. I'd like to find good torque and hp curves for the 283 in early, stock form as compared to some other engines that I have more experience with. Seems most of the data these days focuses on the 283 with power pack heads and super high hp numbers (1hp/cc) target. Anyway, I think a fresh 283 would help, and while the engine power is good without being too much risk for the rest of the drivetrain, I don't find the higher end performance all that well suited for 4wd wagon - seems like its better suited for a roadster or touring focus.
     
  12. Sep 26, 2020
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

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    That is EXACTLY why the 305 came into existence. Small displacement (read economical) but with some decent, usable bottom end torque. The TPI system (the grandfather of almost all later EFI induction) took that concept even farther. A 305 would be near perfect in any early Jeep. The 307 was the early attempt at this and they worked pretty well also. Just not as good as the quarter inch longer stroke 305.

    Another "wish you were closer". There is a 87 305 taking up floor space in my garage that should run without a rebuild.
     
  13. Sep 26, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    Its all good....Other than the oil consumption and leaking, I am at least enjoying using the wagon as my around town 'go getter,' and it is quite useable. It was not a driveable jeep when I bought it, so I try to remember that I've made some good progress and am starting to enjoy using it. I am not planning to keep the 283 in it long term, so its definitely not worth rebuilding it for now. Once the long term solution for the wagon is done, I'll have to figure out what to do with the 283. I don't think many people are looking to buy one to build - maybe a few focused on true restorations - as the average builder can buy a crate engine for a lot less than rebuilding an old one, and get more performance etc. At the same time, the more I've learned about the 283s, I personally think it has a cool factor, and in the right application, would be a blast to drive.
     
  14. Sep 26, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    That's a shorter drive than coming out to the Rubicon.....:whistle:
     
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  15. Sep 26, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    Exactly! And for comparison I drove from central Florida to Rocky Ford, Colorado in 48 hours to get my military ambulance (M43). :D
     
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  16. Sep 26, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    I think I have a closer solution....
     
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  17. Sep 26, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    :waiting:
     
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  18. Sep 26, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    You need to build a nice 50s period correct hot rod 32 Ford roadster.
     
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  19. Sep 26, 2020
    mortten

    mortten I can’t put my finger on it 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Late 70’s early 80’s 305s had cam issues.
     
  20. Sep 26, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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