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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Sep 16, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    I think they are original (maybe with a bit of the top plate cut-off) and that they are in the oem location....

    Driver side:
    [​IMG]

    Driver side - up close:
    [​IMG]

    passenger side:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Sep 16, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    Well....lots of different wagon projects going on...finally ran a compression test to see what is up with the engine, and all the concern about blowby and oil consumption etc. I've been keeping good fuel and oil mileage records for the last couple months and its getting about 12.5mpg, but also loosing a qt of oil every 300 miles or so - some of it out of the leaky gaskets etc, and the rest through consumption/blowby. I don't know the exact specs for this 283, but assuming something like an 8 or 8.5 compression ratio would suggest something in the range of 120 psi (and remember I am at 5280 ft). I only ran them dry, but the numbers are so low it either doesn't matter whether it is worn rings or worn valve seals, or I suck at getting decent measurements (which is possible).

    1: 60!
    2: 80
    3: 75
    4: 70
    5: 90
    6: 90
    7: 80
    8: 80
     
  3. Sep 16, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Sep 21, 2002
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    Yep, look to be just cut back for the width of the V8.
     
  4. Sep 17, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    Continuing forward with the heater. I paid the local shop to replace the heater core - hope it was money well spent. I think the spectre 94478 would work in both the old willys and ecj5s with a bit of minor mods to the heater box....here is the repaired core - looks good from my vantage point (but what do I know):
    [​IMG]

    Took the entire heater and blower system apart to clean it and get it functioning just a bit better - guessing from the size of the core and the fresh source is all just like the cj, that this thing is as much a placebo heater as anything, but I'd like it to at least function and look decent. Took it all apart and cleaned however many years of gunk, dirt and whatnot out of and off of everything. The plenum assembly always seemed to rattle around etc - turns out it is probably a homemade replacement for the old cardboard style. Its made out of something like galvanized flashing and riveted together - but it actually seems to be pretty darn solid. The diverter/flapper was reused and the dual outlet is also steel - so maybe oem as well.
    [​IMG]

    I think if I would have made one - I would have welded it together from thin sheetmetal. It has a lot of sharp edges at the overlaps and corners, as well as the seams are not airtight (although the oem cardboard one weren't after a few years either), so wonder if that has any significant affect on airflow out the defroster etc. At some point it had been held to the blower housing with a few screws - but most of those where gone and it was barely holding together with some dry rotted duct tape. I attached them together much more solidly with 2 screws on each side, trimmed and worked on fitting the joint together nice and tight, and used a little hammer work to tighten up and smooth over most of the open gaps and rough edges etc. I think it came out pretty darn well.....certainly worth re-using instead of buying the plastic aftermarket ones....The biggest concern is there is there is a bit bigger gap around the diverter (between the diverter flap and the inside of the tunnel) than I would like, so not all of the air will get diverted into the defroster.
    [​IMG]

    The rest of the heater box and housing has also been cleaned up - there was a lot of rust and corrosion etc, and its not easy to get in all the nooks and crannies, but its also looking really good. Was going to let the paint finish drying and put it all back on the willys, but I am thinking I am about to pull the engine, so might as well leave it out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  5. Sep 17, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Yeah, those compression numbers aren't great. It's probably due for a refresh.
     
  6. Sep 17, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Ahh - the big question: refresh it...or buy a used sbc....or buy a crate sbc.....
     
  7. Sep 17, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Realistically, you're probably better off getting used and/or crate. That gets you away from the 3 year only stuff on that engine like the breather tube, valve covers and oil filter. And I imagine someone would pay some money for an original '57 engine. Does your from mounting plate work with newer blocks?

    If you want more work, I've got a 350hp fuel injected small block ford that would look good in it. ...and the distributor is in the FRONT.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  8. Sep 17, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    Jan 10, 2014
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    If you buy a used engine just assume its a core and pay no more than $100-$150 unless you hear it run and pull the valve covers, oil pan, a main bearing cap, and rod cap.
     
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  9. Sep 17, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I’m in the camp of, “if you’re going to change it, make it worth it.”

    I don’t see much point in swapping/rebuilding a healthy engine and keeping the T-90. Pulling the whole engine/auto/t-case from a 70s or 80s Chevy full-size would get my vote.
     
    73 cj5 likes this.
  10. Sep 17, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    not really

    envisioning blown up transmission and axles

    SOLD! :rofl:

    yes - at least as long as its a Gen I - don't know about later stuff. I am thinking an sbc that will drop in place - no other changes necessary (except maybe denting the firewall a bit more :rolleyes:). In a perfect world, the engine needs to be moved 2-3 inches forward, and while I am fine with cutting and welding motor mounts (I think), not sure I am up for relocating the rest of the drivetrain, modifying shifters and possibly floor pans....and while not huge, the added expense of new drive shafts as well. If the engine ever gets relocated, I would also want to go to an automatic transmission - just don't see that in the budget right now. One possibility is to drop in a crate engine, and then if after a few years, I am loving it and deem it worthy of more investment and expense, it would still be viable to do that as the next project, and I would know the engine is still pretty fresh and good to go.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  11. Sep 18, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Jul 18, 2013
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    Completely fair statement - but I am not sure I can undertake such a big project with such an extended timeline (not to mention budget concerns). Nothing but respect and amazement for your builds - and maybe even more astounded at the unending dedication to seeing something like the Varg through to the end.
     
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  12. Sep 18, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    just because you know I already thought this....I spent some time this morning looking for a L6-226 to build and put back in. That was to justify keeping it original including the t90 etc....the only local one I found wanted $3500, and it was a core...back to the sbc....:beer:
     
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  13. Sep 18, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    That’s it. I’m loading the RV with tools and camping it out in front of your house for a week. We’ll git’er done. (y)




    I really wish I wasn’t kidding. :D
     
  14. Sep 18, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    It might be cheaper to rebuild what you have unless you find a good engine to replace it with. You can leak test the valves and check guide/stem/seat wear and do a visual inspection of all the parts to get a good idea of where you stand.
     
  15. Sep 19, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I would have thought there would be a 226 pretty much everywhere out there for sale. How could someone expect to get $3500 for a core?
     
  16. Sep 19, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I'm not really a fan of the very early small blocks. I'm voting tbi 4.3 to bring everything forward 4.4"
     
  17. Sep 20, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I hesitate to open up this can-o-worms discussion, but I also appreciate thinking about and researching different options with regard to the drivetrain....The reality is I may be very limited by budget, but research and discussion is free (and its also a place to document my thoughts for later reference).....There are obviously a lot of different engine options out there, but for now I am constraining the discussion to assuming a gen I sbc is used, and the current OEM axles and gears (4.27) are used (and that I drive it relatively responsibly - I am pretty light on the throttle most of the time). In the case of swapping out a transmission, I would most likely also be moving the engine forward a couple inches to get everything 'right'....as if I know what 'right' is....

    What are good transmission options to consider? The 3speeds all have the major drawback of no OD - and for this willys, its more of a cruiser and road trip focus than a wheeling jeep. A warn/saturn OD is certainly an option on the D18, but we all know its not cheap. And there is less value in the gear splitting option as the v8 has plenty of power to not need the tweener gears, and this is not as much a trail rig where the extra gear options really helps.
    1) keep the t90...I think for my usage and driving style, the t90 is not a major weak link. In addition to no OD, the other downside to the t90 - I don't love the way it shifts - it has quite different 'feel' than my T14, and its not as enjoyable, although I am getting used to it - its just a very slow shifter, or maybe its just that it was designed in the 1940s? Overall, the t90 has only done the classic popping out of 2nd a few times, but what I don't want to do is put money into as a rebuild only to then move on from it.
    2) T15 - I think this would be a better route for a 3speed than rebuilding a t90 - and it should mate up the D18 without issue. Would have to adapt to the sbc on the other end....if I had a good T15 ready to go, I might seriously consider this option with a Warn OD, but I don't, so I struggle to justify spending the money to find a T15 (and probably go through a rebuild), GM adapter may be needed, and still have to buy an OD at some point down the road.
    3) A truck 4-speed isn't really applicable for this usage, as I don't think I have any need for the crawler gear - not intending to wheel it hard - and still have the same OD issues as the 3speed - so skipping those for now....
    4) In the world of manual OD transmissions - the main one that I see that might be useful in this application is the AX15....I do enjoy driving a manual (wife does not but we'll skip that for now), and a 5 speed manual would be really nice. According to Novak, this can be adapted to both the GM and the D18 (its OEM config is to bolt to a D300)....In a dream world, would this be an ideal set-up? I'd probably mate it to the D18....There is some extra expense in the extra adapter, and I don't know how much 'bigger' this is - not just in terms of length, but all around as that could mean a lot of floorpan work would be needed? It does seem that even though its a more modern manual, I can still use a relatively simple mechanical clutch system to keep the through the floor pedals.
    5) Automatic - I don't see using a TH350/400 due to the lack of OD, so probably a 700R4. I don't know much about automatics in terms of what is needed...I worry about electronic controls and whatever else is needed (all the stuff I don't know about), as well as much modification to floor boards etc would be needed....In short, I am pretty intimidated to try and swap to an auto.....plus I think it would be the most expensive of all options.....

    Anyway, this is the stuff I have gotten some research info on....wondering what options I might have missed. I like options 4 and 5, but I don't see how I have the budget for those....the expense of just buying those transmissions probably is a deal breaker for now. But, I certainly can see trying to get the engine situation sorted out (rebuild, replace etc), going with that as is for a while (say until the t90 dies), and then move on to the transmission at some point....One last caveat to this - I don't have a traditional GM sbc bellhousing, but guessing finding one of those is pretty easy, as I don't think the powerglide adapter and bell that I currently have is of much use (seems like it is just a complicating factor if I tried to use it).
     
  18. Sep 20, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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  19. Sep 20, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    I was going thinking posting another thread about buying used engines....I am just not very comfortable buying used engines of unknown history etc...seems as whenever I buy a used engine (that came with a jeep I bought), they aren't very good. The cost of a rebuild with machine work etc seems to just push me to a crate engine for not much more....and when it comes to an automatic transmission????? How do I know its not just $1500 for cores...?
     
  20. Sep 20, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    I can't really consider something like the suburban....if I could pull the parts from something from JY, then maybe (I've never had much success JY scrounging)....but a part vehicle is not doable in a small suburban house with city ordinances and regulations. I can't drive it home, no trailer to pull it on, even if I rent a trailer, I don't have truck to pull it....I'd probably have to pay or use my AAA to get a flatbed tow service to move it and leave it at my house....and even when I am done pulling the questionable engine and trans etc, I still have to scrap the rest of it somehow? Around my house - I'd probably be best if I left a FREE sign on it with the keys and someone would just take it in the middle of the night.....
     
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