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From Bad To Worse With Broken Bolt!! Don't Do What I Did.

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Scott Sherraden, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. Jul 28, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
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    12,367
    Can you drill it out with a 1/4" bit and use an easy out?
     
  2. Jul 28, 2020
    90 degree

    90 degree New Member

    arizona
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    Sep 1, 2019
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    33
    you will need a piece of 1/2 in or 3/8 threaded rod. a couple of nuts. we will build a cheap sliding hammer.the washer might be a 7/8 or something. you need a big hole in the washer.if i wanted to pull that bearing i would get a heavy washer and make it a little smaller than the OD of the bearing. if the bearing od lets say is 1 and 1/2 in than i would grind or turn the washer to 1 and 7/16. after that take the washer and grind or cut flats on opposite sides of the washer. grind enough off each side of the washer till you can load it onto the threaded rod and angle the washer so you can slide the washer through the bearing. when its in just pull the rod and the washer should straighten up behind the bearing. finish building you sliding hammer with a weight and a nut. you should be able to pull it. Make sure you put a nut and washer on the end of the rod so you don't lose anything in the motor. you can put the washer a couple of inches from your end nut so you can angle the washer as much as possible. this is easy to make hard to describe
     
    Scott Sherraden likes this.
  3. Jul 28, 2020
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    8,102
    *Do*Not* attempt to remove the cam gear from the shaft- it never ends well. :(

    To remove the cam you need to pull the water pump, timing gear cover, carb, head, fuel linkage, side valve over, probably the exhaust manifold ( add at laest one broken stud) exhaust valve & some way to hold the tappets up as you pull the shaft out.

    My prediction is you'll find reason to do a full rebuild or an engine swap.
     
    fhoehle likes this.
  4. Jul 29, 2020
    CHUGALUG

    CHUGALUG Member

    Silverton, OR
    Joined:
    May 11, 2019
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    238
    I find it hard to believe he had a drill bit hard enough to cut into a Bearing not to mention the bearing surface of the cam. especially not on a perfect 90°. I think a full tear down is going to be called for.
     
    Glenn likes this.
  5. Jul 29, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
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    This is my thought also. Even if it did manage to go all the way to the cam surface somehow it still needs to be removed first....don't want to drag the rest of the surface across and damage it also.
     
  6. Jul 29, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
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    4,170
    The cam bearing shells are not hard at all, and are only about 1/16" thick. I've drilled an extra oil hole in cam bearings in other engine applications.
    -Donny
     
  7. Jul 29, 2020
    Scott Sherraden

    Scott Sherraden Member

    Kansas
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2020
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    59
    Hi all, thanks some good advice here!

    Chugalug and Glenn, yes it is a very thin and soft bearing. Very easy to drill through that and into the cam itself. Which is what I did unfortunately. After looking again more carefully I can see clearly that I went well into the cam itself with the drill bit.

    I took another really good look at this last night and decided that I will pull the motor instead of trying to pull the cam with it in the Jeep, mainly because there is a frame crossmember in the way (underneath the radiator). It would be just as much work to get that out of the way vs. pulling the motor.

    While I have the motor out who knows, I may end up doing a full rebuild depending on how things look. I have no idea on the history or actual mileage of the Jeep.

    My first approach after getting the motor on a stand, will be to drill square on, as deep as I need to go into the cam to get the broken bit out. The cam and bearing are trashed anyway. With luck, I will only have to end up replacing that bearing and cam. Worst case, I'll tear it open and do a full rebuild. I will get the motor pulled out this weekend and start the process! I'll post up again once it's all done.
     
    fhoehle likes this.
  8. Jul 29, 2020
    Scott Sherraden

    Scott Sherraden Member

    Kansas
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    Jul 7, 2020
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    Thanks, great advice on how to get the cam bearing out!
     
  9. Jul 29, 2020
    Scott Sherraden

    Scott Sherraden Member

    Kansas
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    Jul 7, 2020
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    Haha everyone is allowed at least one really stupid moment in life, this was mine. I measured how much broken drill bit was gone and it clearly goes right thru the thin bearing, well into the cam itself. Unfortunately, believe it :) lol
     
  10. Jul 29, 2020
    Scott Sherraden

    Scott Sherraden Member

    Kansas
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    Jul 7, 2020
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    59
    Yes already pulled carb, linkage, side cover, exhaust manifold. OK good advice on the water pump I had not got that far yet, didn't see how that plays into it but I will find out!
     
  11. Jul 31, 2020
    fhoehle

    fhoehle Sponsor

    Harford Township, PA
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    Apr 11, 2012
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    Everyone messes up sometimes. Those who say they don't are lying to themselves or to you. That being said, this is a fine pickle you have gotten yourself into.
     
    Scott Sherraden likes this.
  12. Jul 31, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Aug 3, 2003
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    If you are going to "drill out" the broken drill tip, you'll need to consider the hardened nature of the stuck piece. It will wreck a normal HSS drill bit, then you'll have two pieces stuck.

    Probably would need a carbide drill or grinding burr to "drill" it out. (BTDT, got the hat and the T-shirt.)

    First I'd see if you can't extract it by any other means. Many pro-tips here in the archives if you search.
     
  13. Jul 31, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Sep 21, 2002
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    I'm curious as to what grade the broken bolt is.
     
  14. Jul 31, 2020
    Scott Sherraden

    Scott Sherraden Member

    Kansas
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    Jul 7, 2020
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    I'm guessing grade 5, it actually drilled out very easily (until the bit broke)
     
  15. Jul 31, 2020
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    5,349
    A camshaft is only case hardened as most that would have been in this engine would have been cast steel or iron. Any drill bit would drill thru the bearing and a decent one would make it thru the case hardening in about a minute of drilling.

    I definitely wouldn’t try to drill it out with a regular drill bit. And to be honest most guys do not know what a good carbide drill bit looks like or know how to properly use it. A hand drill is really not an option. Your best bet would be a double cut carbide ball bit in a Dremel or better yet a pencil grinder that you can control very well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  16. Jul 31, 2020
    Scott Sherraden

    Scott Sherraden Member

    Kansas
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    Jul 7, 2020
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    59
    Yes I agree, I'm going to take it very slow and carefully. I have to drill out most of the broken bolt first. That part will be easy. The broken bit will be harder, but it is down in there a ways, so I need to drill out some of the bolt first to get to it. This will be tricky I agree.
     
  17. Jul 31, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    This is why I mentioned an easy out. I'm assuming the bolt had to have broken off fairly easy. It should (hopefully) back out fairly easy too. As far as the drill bit it is anybody's guess as to what will happen. It's either jammed in there or maybe you're lucky and it busted off as soon as it caught a hard surface which could make it easier to remove. Just throwing my thought out there.
     
  18. Aug 1, 2020
    53A1

    53A1 Member

    Kern Co. Ca.
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    Jun 17, 2008
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    Man oh man.

    If the broken drill is preventing the cam from turning then the cam probably won't slide out? So, the broken drill part will have to come out. Engine out for sure and torn down. On engine stand with drilled hole pointed down try a broken tap extractor to grab flutes. May have to add an extension of some sort to the tap extractor to reach down the hole. Wiggle cam gear back and forth while turning the tap extractor. Don't want to booger up the cam journal so baby it. May come out or may be welded in. Who knows.
     
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  19. Aug 1, 2020
    90 degree

    90 degree New Member

    arizona
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    Sep 1, 2019
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    how far down in this hole is the broken piece. carbide bits are usually pretty short so are burrs. they make some drill tools that cut and extract in reverse. left- handed, but they are short too. extractor drill bits 2 inches long
     
    Keys5a likes this.
  20. Aug 8, 2020
    jeeper50

    jeeper50 jeeps 'till I die

    Spanish Fort. AL
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    Dec 20, 2007
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    844
    :watch: Post several pics if you can, maybe we can come up with other ideas and suggestions. I agree to remove fender, grill, at the very least.
     
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