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Crate Engines (sbc)

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Jul 6, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    As part of my researching and thinking about how to move forward with the wagon...I am looking into sbc crate engine options. There are a lot of options, from short blocks to long blocks to turn keys etc, and they come in a wide range of costs. I am not looking for a performance engine, but rather a reliable user - I think even a pretty basic 190hp sbc350 will provide more than enough get up a go for my wagon and hopefully not endanger any drivetrain pieces. Any particular vendors or maybe specifically rebuilders/manufacturers that are preferred or recommended? Warranty thoughts? Better to go with short block and add-on the heads and intake etc that I want (or possibly re-use what I have), or go long block or turn key? Just trying to price out a reasonable estimates.

    If I go this route, I certainly would want to consider fuel injection - probably as a TBI set-up. That of course, would possibly mean figuring out a fuel tank/pump set-up, or could I used a frame rail mounted pump with oem style tank/pickup. FiTech also has their 'commander' system as well. Another added consideration with TBI set-ups I think is a new intake - not sure if the spread bore/Qjet would be useable (probably with an adapter), or maybe its best to just go with square bore intake, or just go with a fully assembled TBI motor?

    your thoughts are appreciated....and I am not saying this is the chosen route for the wagon, this is just researching one of the options.
     
  2. Jul 6, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    Vortec block and heads with 87-95 tbi setup or better yet edelbrock pro flo 4 is personally what I'd look into. Parts are cheap and readily available still.
    My friend had a modified 350 gm goodwrench crate engine in his old dirt drag truck until he could afford to build something else and it held up fine.
     
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  3. Jul 6, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    JEGS will have the best price on GM crate engines, they buy in large volume. They are cheaper than the dealers, even if you work there. They also carry the full factory warranty. Long block is a better option, all the parts are matched by people smarter than us. The 300hp option is a very nice power plant, but will break parts. That loose nut behind the wheel thing. The torque increase from 283 to 350 will be impressive. In my opinion, I prefer reliability over horse power. Good luck, Ron
     
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  4. Jul 6, 2020
    Richard in AZ

    Richard in AZ I just don't understand the like of patina

    PHX AZ
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    Being a retired Government Fleet manager I have purchased engines for many many police cars. The GM-Ford crate motors from the dealer were reliable and had a consistent quality. All other rebuilders....Jasper and local were hit and miss.

    I found it was a you get what you pay for type of thing...

    Richard
     
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  5. Jul 6, 2020
    blalp!

    blalp! Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Concord, NH
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    I have a coworker who put two of the GM Performance Parts turn key engines in two of his model A Fords about 8 or so years ago. He has had good luck with them. Drop-in and go.
     
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  6. Jul 7, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    NOT Jasper! :poo:
     
  7. Jul 7, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    So a preliminary search on JEGS would this is the primary option (there are some more dressed versions as well):
    JEGS 7353: Small Block Chevy 350ci Crate Engine 195 HP (Can produce up to 260 HP) | JEGS
    Looks like I would have to replace the flywheel with a later style one.....or maybe it can be ordered with one...

    What about ATK - they are sold everywhere but maybe always on the budget end....
    ATK Engines VC09: Remanufactured Crate Engine for 1967-1977 Chevy/GM Cars & Trucks with 350ci/5.7L V8 | JEGS
     
  8. Jul 7, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    I know a guy who had an atk dressed 302. The distributor was “bad out of the box” (knowing who was working on the truck they probably broke it). The company took the engine back and let him keep the Holley carburetor. I don’t recall what was wrong with the engine but it had to do with improper break in(iirc wiped cam lobes).
     
  9. Jul 7, 2020
    BobH

    BobH Member

    Oviedo, Fl
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    What about an EcoBoost swap? They have good power in a smaller package. I have a 2016 F150 with a 3.5 and am very happy with it.
     
  10. Jul 7, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    You are comparing prices of a NEW engine to a REMAN. Apples and oranges. There are parts you won't be able to reuse. I went with rebuilding a core engine I had, but I am a professional mechanic so I only had parts and machine work. I know you're not I Ohio, but the last 350 I built was right at $1600 machining and parts. Ron
     
  11. Jul 7, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Guess I didn't realize the JEGS engines are new and not reman...Can I use my exisiting spread bore intake and Qjet, smaller cap pertronix distributor, and ram horn exhaust manifolds with the 87 and later JEGS engine? If I go this route, I think for budget reasons, I might prefer to re-use some of those pieces....I would have to address the firewall just to the clear the taller valve covers - but that would be the case with any 350 set-up - and fitting in a large cap HEI would also require some firewall mod. The slippery slope begins there, as moving the engine forward a couple inches to provide better clearance at the back end means new motor mounts, as well as transmission/crossmember and possibly driveshaft changes. That opens the door for automatic transmission and busting my budget.....could save those dreams with TBI etc for later - if later ever comes. Honestly, I feel like $2000 dollars is reasonable expense to get it running reliably at this point - albeit that assumes my Qjet rebuild was good and not part of the problem. Buying a new intake and carb doesn't seem like the best way to go.... Guess there is always the all inclusive kit with FiTech included: JEGS 7353K3: Small Block Chevy 350ci Crate Engine Kit | JEGS
     
  12. Jul 7, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    Ok, a lot of questions and info to follow.
    The 7353 engine has pre 86 heads(good for what you want)
    It doesn't appear to have tall valve covers
    Yes your spread bore intake will fit, with your distributor
    q-jet condition????
    If your carb isn't up to the job, I recommend a JET PERFORMANCE Q-jet from jegs. Pricey but all the work is done.
    More to follow, Ron
     
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  13. Jul 7, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    The 283 and the 350 are physically the same size
    the exhaust manifolds will work, will the flow enough???
    motor mounts will be the same, you shouldn't need to move anything
    You will need a 1 piece rear main seal flywheel

    PLEASE keep in mind this information is from memory, I can direct you towards the rite part if changes occur.
    I've done a lot of these swaps.
    I'll help anyway I can. Ron
     
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  14. Jul 7, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    compared to the the early 283 - it has taller covers - although they may not be the tallest covers found on sbc's
    the question is more about 'should' I move it forward....it opens up quite a can of worms, but its an unfortunate fit as is.
    rebuilt it last fall - seems to be working reasonably well. Its certainly not as dialed as the 2g I did for the 225, but I think I am still struggling with getting the float height just right, and the fuel delivery from the pump may be an issue with heat and vapor lock (due to the front mounting the fuel line is routed right over the exhaust)....it starts cold and runs fine, but doesn't love hot starts, and it doesn't like off angle.
    that is good...I am okay with buying new water pump and fuel pump, but would prefer not to waste the money spent on new distributor I got for it last fall, and the new radiator and fan, and ALt are all money well spent that can be re-used with crate engine. I need to factor in the cost of the new flywheel and new accessory mounts as well I think - at least one for the PS and on for the ALT....as I think the alt would be moved to the passenger front, that would mean relocating the battery mount - possibly back near the OEM driver side firewall mount location.....
     
  15. Jul 7, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    If you want to mess with people, If the valve cover bolts are straight across from each other on the 283, then you can swap valve covers with the 350.

    If you're not happy where it's located, Now would be the time to fix what you don't like.

    As far as accessories go, JUNK Yard. Find an old chevy with a sbc and strip the front of the engine.

    NAPA lists an flex plate for $28, flywheel for $85.

    Does your fuel pump have a return fitting? You can add a return line to help keep your fuel temps down.
     
  16. Jul 8, 2020
    mortten

    mortten I can’t put my finger on it 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Peninsula, Ohio
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    Check Summit Racing also.
     
  17. Aug 2, 2020
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Yes, but keep in mind all the accessory mounts have to be compatible with either the short or long water pump you are using. If going the GM crate engine, I would be looking for a 96-2000 stand alone Vortex 5.7 truck engine. They definitely get the best mileage of the stock Gen I small blocks and IME, pretty much maintenance free to at least 200k. These would also be using the one piece rear seal (everything after 86 was one piece). The dip stick also went to the right side at that time. If you go with a serpentine belt, make sure you get the complete accessory drive system off the same engine. Those belts are VERY sensitive to alignment.
     
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